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The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:55 pm
by ahuyton
Thanks for the various replies to my previous posts. Here is what I propose as teams and games:

Pro-Ming

Kiwiwarlord (captain)
LFDLM
ahuyton
Eobrian2

Anti-Ming


Snugglebunnies (captain)
Pixel
GentlemanRanker
Fikabo

Round 1 - The early period

Each player will have four games, ie against each opponent in the other team.
Each player should select an army for their four games using only an army whose latest date is before 1600. The army should be selected from the 'Mandate of Heaven list'. No Japanese armies please, No Woou pirates either, just Chinese, Korean, Tibetan or Mongol. Please let me know by pm of your choice and I will publish the list.
Then the Pro-Ming players will set-up the games, large forces, open battle with pot-luck terrain.
Players score points as follows:

Victory by breaking the opponent's army - 5 points
Victory but without breaking the enemy - 2 points
Losing but inflicting 50%+ casualties - 1 point
Draw ( ie a tie or you both give up) - 1 point

Round 2 - The later period

Same rules.

Game rules

Play to win but be nice and friendly ...

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:16 pm
by SnuggleBunnies
Which army book is this for? Ming in Crisis or Mandate of Heaven? As there are additional lists in MoH.

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:36 am
by KiwiWarlord
SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:16 pm
Which army book is this for? Ming in Crisis or Mandate of Heaven? As there are additional lists in MoH.
Also are all the armies in the Pro Ming list available or does the chosen army have to have the word 'Ming' included ?
i.e. are Joseon or any of the Rebels etc allowed ?

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:19 am
by ahuyton
KiwiWarlord wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:36 am
SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:16 pm
Which army book is this for? Ming in Crisis or Mandate of Heaven? As there are additional lists in MoH.
Also are all the armies in the Pro Ming list available or does the chosen army have to have the word 'Ming' included ?
i.e. are Joseon or any of the Rebels etc allowed ?
Sorry for the lack of clarity.

I think that we can use the Mandate of Heaven module and allow any Chinese, Tibetan, Korean or Mongol armies in the pro-Ming and Anti-Ming lists. Let us not use the Japanese armies or the pirates.

Does that work for you both?

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:42 pm
by SnuggleBunnies
Sounds good

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:49 pm
by ahuyton
Maybe KiwiWarlord (KW) and Sugglebunnies (SB) can contact their players please?

So that I have no unfair advantage in selection of armies, I will let KW select for me. Anything is fine.

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:00 pm
by KiwiWarlord
SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:42 pm
Sounds good
and to me.
I should have put my glasses on :shock:

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:07 am
by Pixel
I'm thinking of doing the Southern Rebels 1597 - 1598 (Anti-Ming) list for the first round. But if Snuggles wants to coordinate about which lists the Anti-Ming team goes for I'm open to other options.

That Tibetan Rivals 1500 - 1589 (Anti-Ming) list also looks tempting but I don't think I am a good enough of a pony pusher to go for that army.

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:48 am
by SnuggleBunnies
People should pick what they want to play with, I think this tourney is for fun more than competition. I'll have my choice tomorrow.

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:31 am
by ahuyton
SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:48 am
People should pick what they want to play with, I think this tourney is for fun more than competition. I'll have my choice tomorrow.
Absolutely right!

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:20 pm
by SnuggleBunnies
Actually now that I'm looking through the lists, why no Japanese or pirates? Could be some interesting matchups? Is it a balance concern? A concern to keep the flavor firmly on China?

And why 1600? That cuts us off of many of the armies as they transfer from bows to guns - the Korean and Tibetan lists, along with the Qing and Mongols, are all far more viable once their infantry have access to firearms. It also means no Koxinga or Zheng Dynasty, which are rather exotic lists.

It's unlikely that anyone will pick Mongols anyway, but it's a certainty that no one will without access to the Later Western Mongols list, which at least provides some good infantry support.

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:57 am
by ahuyton
SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:20 pm
Actually now that I'm looking through the lists, why no Japanese or pirates? Could be some interesting matchups? Is it a balance concern? A concern to keep the flavor firmly on China?

And why 1600? That cuts us off of many of the armies as they transfer from bows to guns - the Korean and Tibetan lists, along with the Qing and Mongols, are all far more viable once their infantry have access to firearms. It also means no Koxinga or Zheng Dynasty, which are rather exotic lists.

It's unlikely that anyone will pick Mongols anyway, but it's a certainty that no one will without access to the Later Western Mongols list, which at least provides some good infantry support.
When we discussed it earlier, I think people felt the pirates were atypical ad would unbalance. Similarly, we thought that the Japanese would be too good against the Ming.

For the post 1600 lists, then there is Round 2.

Fr Round 1, if you have a list in mind that at least starts before 1600 then that is fine I suppose. Why don't you just propose the lists and we can see if there is any objection (which I doubt as we are playing for fun rather than glory).

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:35 pm
by ahuyton
So far I have army choices from

Kiwiwarlord
myself
Eobrian2
GentlemanRanker
Fikabo

I know Snugglebunnies is on the case and Pixel was in touch.

Any news from...?

LFDLM

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:58 pm
by SnuggleBunnies
I'd love to play the Wokou; though fearsome against infantry, they do have a very tough time against cavalry. But, if people are of the opinion that they are OP, I'll take Northern Rebels 1594-96. Southern Rebels are better, but I believe others are claiming them already. I feel that Tribal Rebels are trash thanks to their lack of missile power, and the early Tibetan lists lack matchlocks, not to mention they are still on the expensive armored cavalry.

I'm not actually interested in taking the Japanese Invaders, but for what it's worth I think they are fairly well balanced vs the Chinese lists thanks to their lack of tactical flexibility (they must charge due to lack of missile power) and expensive units.

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:59 am
by fikabo
I will take Tibetan Rivals 1500-1589 - I likes to play Ottomans and Polish units and see here some similarity.

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:43 am
by ahuyton
fikabo wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:59 am
I will take Tibetan Rivals 1500-1589 - I likes to play Ottomans and Polish units and see here some similarity.
Thanks, Fikabo, I am happy that you are taking part

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:47 am
by LFDLM
OK, I choose an army and I'm ready !

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:36 pm
by Pixel
@ahuyton PM sent. I'm flexible. If you want more variety then I'll switch to a different army since I know we have another Southern Rebels player. If you are ok with two Southern Rebels players with earlier and later lists then I'll stick with my initial choice of the Southern Rebels 1597 - 1598 (Anti-Ming) for the first round. Anyways, let me know.

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:02 pm
by ahuyton
So here are the Round One armies

Pro-Ming

Kiwiwarlord (captain) - Ming Southern Army 1597-1598
LFDLM - Joseon 1593-94
ahuyton - Tibetan Lords 1560-1589
Eobrian2 - Joeson 1595-1598

Anti-Ming

Snugglebunnies (captain) - Wokou
Pixel - Southern Rebels 1597 - 1598
GentlemanRanker - Southern Rebels 1571-1593
Fikabo - Tibetan Rivals 1500-1589

It should be fun.The Mighty Ming and his somewhat Lesser Mings can set up the games. Let's aim to finish by end-August. Obviously if people go away for a long period then we can be flexible if needed.

Any issues, objections, unhappiness, desire to change list, etc?

Re: The Ming and their enemies - team event

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:08 pm
by SnuggleBunnies
I posted my choices above. I'd prefer Wokou, but if there are objections, Northern Rebels 1594