The Ming and their enemies - Round One

SnuggleBunnies
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:13 pm

I have no strong feelings on the matter. The armies will change anyway, as the later lists have more gunpowder etc.

LFDLM
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by LFDLM » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:52 am

Everything is fine with me.

KiwiWarlord
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by KiwiWarlord » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:55 am

KiwiWarlord (Ming Southern Army 1597-98, 6% ) Defeated Gentleman Ranker (Southern Rebels 1571-99, 41%) 41 - 6

Long drawn out game, which I thought would end in a draw, saw much manoeuvring back & forth by both of us looking for an edge. GR spread out a bit too much and I pounced causing much damage in the last few turns.
GR and I spent most of the time chatting to each other about our tabletop wargaming experiences, likes, dislikes, various Rule Sets that we have played, interesting stories, and our tabletop armies.We both really enjoy the MP versions of P&S & FoG2 as well and intend getting some games going when time allows.
Between the both of us we have approx 100 years of wargaming fun & games.

ahuyton
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by ahuyton » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:36 am

SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:13 pm
I have no strong feelings on the matter. The armies will change anyway, as the later lists have more gunpowder etc.
Thanks, so let us then stay attached to our first teams
- Ming led by KW
- Anti-Ming led by SB

I will update the rules accordingly

SnuggleBunnies
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:44 am

SnuggleBunnies (Wokou) defeats KiwiWarlord (Ming Southern) 18-0 (Kiwi surrendered)

GG

KiwiWarlord
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by KiwiWarlord » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:57 am

SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:44 am
SnuggleBunnies (Wokou) defeats KiwiWarlord (Ming Southern) 18-0 (Kiwi surrendered)

GG
As there was no terrain to stand on top of I opted for a slow withdrawal into a bottom corner leaving a scattered rear guard to take the losses and impede the Pirate Steam Roller whilst my boys hunkered down around and within a small wood and play for a losing draw. Being vastly outnumbered there was no way I could win against the Impact Foot Monster. The Pirates advanced to my baseline with approx half their force wheeled and began their attack. The other half of the Pirate horde was stung out across the field with only a couple of units approaching my forested corner. Within a couple of turns I had 18% losses. I advanced through the wood with an Impact Foot unit and attacked the only two Pirate Units there. My Impact Foot unit charged and had 50-50 chance of holding until my Cavalry moved along the woodland track and flanked the Pirates. Bang !!!! my unit Fragged ....."bloody hell" as we say. "That's stuffed that". The same move at the bottom corner of the woods my two Light Artillery batteries supported by 3 archer units manged to disrupt a large Pirate unit so I immediately charged a unit of my Cavalry into it expecting to break it. Wham...!!!! Bounced off........ what the ...??? So I gave up and pulled the plug with about 7-8 moves to go. The Pirates went home laden with booty.

ahuyton
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by ahuyton » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:03 am

And I managed to lose against the Tibetan Rivals.

It is an unhappy time for the Ming... so far...

fikabo
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by fikabo » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:22 pm

fikabo (Tibetans rivals) defeats Ahuyton (Tibetan lords) 47:19
Result do not show what happen. This game most time was draw. I have first point get about 10 turn (before result 0:5 for Lords). It was battle in difficult terrain (many forest and river between armies). Both Armies have problem how to attack. Tibetans Rivals decide to make very long/deep flank attack on right wing. Tibetan Lords show danger and move some cavalry here so attack was less probably to succeed. So Tibetan rivals decide to risk (there was small number of turn to finish and draw 1 point is not much to loose) and attack in centre which was weaker by move of Tibetan lords cavalry. After some lucky result of melee Tibetans rivals win in centre with cost of some cavalry and in right wing with much of shooting + efficient 2 spearman attack. There was chance for Tibetans Lords to draw because of good moves in forest in right wing but melee here stop his units very long time and don't split my armies in half.

fikabo
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by fikabo » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:51 pm

fikabo (Tibetans rivals) defeats Eobrian2 (Joseon) 61:4
On Joseon site in centre and his left wing were two big forest. Rest was mostly plain. From calculation look like about 1/2..1/3 of Joseon army was in forest. And his right wing on plain start to move back. So Tibetans leave weak forces in safe distance from forest on right and centre and go with half forces on left side also in safe distance from forest. And this way they finish at end of map. Then turn and start attack in forest direction and even back direction. Joseon on my left wing has enemy in three sides so Tibetans has easy way to make flank attacks from either of side. And one Spearman which made reconnaissance in forest in centre was not blocked and to save himself move on the other side of forest front so make Joseon situation even more complex.

SnuggleBunnies
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:58 pm

KiwiWarlord wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:57 am
SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:44 am
SnuggleBunnies (Wokou) defeats KiwiWarlord (Ming Southern) 18-0 (Kiwi surrendered)

GG
As there was no terrain to stand on top of I opted for a slow withdrawal into a bottom corner leaving a scattered rear guard to take the losses and impede the Pirate Steam Roller whilst my boys hunkered down around and within a small wood and play for a losing draw. Being vastly outnumbered there was no way I could win against the Impact Foot Monster. The Pirates advanced to my baseline with approx half their force wheeled and began their attack. The other half of the Pirate horde was stung out across the field with only a couple of units approaching my forested corner. Within a couple of turns I had 18% losses. I advanced through the wood with an Impact Foot unit and attacked the only two Pirate Units there. My Impact Foot unit charged and had 50-50 chance of holding until my Cavalry moved along the woodland track and flanked the Pirates. Bang !!!! my unit Fragged ....."bloody hell" as we say. "That's stuffed that". The same move at the bottom corner of the woods my two Light Artillery batteries supported by 3 archer units manged to disrupt a large Pirate unit so I immediately charged a unit of my Cavalry into it expecting to break it. Wham...!!!! Bounced off........ what the ...??? So I gave up and pulled the plug with about 7-8 moves to go. The Pirates went home laden with booty.
I would say that it is precisely the corner deployment that cost you the battle. It gave me time to spread the pirates out in a long thin line safe from being outflanked by cavalry, but out of range of artillery. It also allowed the use of multiple avenues of approach over rice paddies that would not have been available in the center of the map. The corner deployment left many troops unable to fire, and those that could were unable to concentrate their fire. Once units began to break, the density led to chain breaks, as well as exposed flanks. I think a linear deployment in open ground would have been much more efficient - cavalry in reserve, matchlockmen standing behind forests to deny their use, and light artillery and archers in the center. Archers can fire further than Wokou charge range, and, since the Wokou are totally unarmored, are actually a better choice than matchlocks in the open. Most of your cavalry were Average or Raw, and made them less useful in the charge - your unit that bounced off was disrupted by archery, and, once it failed to cause a cohesion drop on contact (even quality, both disrupted units) they fell back. The fragging of your southern unit was indeed just bad luck, but I think even if my left wing had collapsed entirely the right would have cut its way to victory, as the melee was getting so confused on that end that there was little room to fire.

In general, in this game, PnS, and FoGII, I almost never see corner defenses work.

KiwiWarlord
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by KiwiWarlord » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:57 am

SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:58 pm
In general, in this game, PnS, and FoGII, I almost never see corner defenses work.
Thanks for your assessment SB. What you said makes sense but I thought a line that would be out flanked on both flanks plus the massive numbers advantage of the Pirates made forming a battle line across the map hopeless. The small amount of rough ground would make little difference to the Impact POA of Pirates. The archers may get 2 volleys in before they are rolled so chances of causing a Disruption are not great. As my plan was to to play for a draw, skulking in a corner seemed worth taking a chance on.

SnuggleBunnies
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:13 pm

Hmm, perhaps. Would you be interested in a match where we switch sides? Perhaps I can eat my words... ahuyton very effectively forced a draw on me, but that was with Tibetans so maybe it's different.

ahuyton
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by ahuyton » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:51 am

Hello everybody

How are the games progressing? Are there any issues or delays?

SnuggleBunnies
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:29 pm

Apologies, LFDLM and I somehow missed each other. I have posted the challenge, Wokou vs Joseon, pw snuggles, PM sent.

I am totally fine with playing round 2 games at the same time as we finish up this game.

LFDLM
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by LFDLM » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:28 pm

My Joseon vs Pixel Ming Rebel : 0/42.

The narrow and rough terrain left Pixel no room for manoeuvre. So I went straight ahead, shouted very loudly, prayed to Buddha, well, the usual things. And it worked.

ahuyton
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by ahuyton » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:48 pm

As far as I can tell, these are the games not yet finished. Could everyone make a big effort and bring them to an end please? Then we can get Round Two underway.

Snugglebunnies v LFDLM
Pixel v ahuyton (now complete)
Pixel v Kiwiwarlord (nearly done)
Pixel v Eobrian2 (ongoing)
Fikabo v Eobrian2 (now complete)

Just correct me if I have missed something please.
Last edited by ahuyton on Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Pixel
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by Pixel » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:34 pm

The kiwiwarlord game is nearly complete I think (within 3-5 turns is my guess).

Eobrian2 one will take a bit more time. Big wood in the center is hiding most of our armies from each other.

Pixel v ahuyton game is complete 0/40. Shameful Crushing Defeat for my Rebels. Victory to ahuyton's Tibetan Lords. Should've stayed more in the woods. The clear even if up hill is still rather good terrain for the Tibetan Nobles.
Image Image

fikabo
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by fikabo » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:36 am

ahuyton wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:48 pm
Fikabo v Eobrian2

Just correct me if I have missed something please.
Fikabo - EObrian2 finished (I have reported 11 august):
fikabo (Tibetans rivals) defeats Eobrian2 (Joseon) 61:4

KiwiWarlord
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by KiwiWarlord » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:29 pm

Looks like the Server is down again.

Congratulations to fellow Ming, Alan & Cedric, on amazing scores.........condolences to Pixel

Pixel
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Re: The Ming and their enemies - Round One

Post by Pixel » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:59 pm

Pixel v Kiwiwarlord is now complete. With victory going to Kiwiwarlord's Ming. 17/52 was the final score.
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