How tedious are logistics in this game?

Afghanistan '11 changes the paradigm of wargaming and manages to bring Counter-Insurgency and guerrilla warfare to your screen, properly represented thanks to a revolutionary gameplay formula!
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Solaristics
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How tedious are logistics in this game?

Post by Solaristics » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:36 am

I really liked the Vietnam game, but eventually put it aside after a few plays because I found the logistics mechanics quite tedious after a while. Sure, it's realistic, but it's boring. The dev mentioned that this was going to be streamlined in Afghanistan, but from the video it is hard to tell if this has been done. It still looks like I need to manually move trucks and helicopters continually between bases - that is, these logistical vehicles need to be in perpetual motion (since unit supply is only a few turns and the time the supply unit takes to return to base, load up and head back to the unit means it has to be constantly shuttling between the base and the unit).

Anybody with experience with the beta who's not under NDA care to comment?

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Re: How tedious are logistics in this game?

Post by zakblood » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:38 am

all in the beta are under the same NDA i'm sorry to say, so none can answer this, apart from the developer

Soar
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Re: How tedious are logistics in this game?

Post by Soar » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:50 pm

Constans wrote:It still looks like I need to manually move trucks and helicopters continually between bases - that is, these logistical vehicles need to be in perpetual motion (since unit supply is only a few turns and the time the supply unit takes to return to base, load up and head back to the unit means it has to be constantly shuttling between the base and the unit).
I wouldn't expect that aspect of the series to go away, since the type of warfare depicted in the games fundamentally revolves around protecting supply chains. Nonetheless, the videos so far provide strong reason to believe that in A'11, logistics will be significantly streamlined.

You'll be able to deliver supplies to FOBs which can then store them and distribute them to nearby units, so you don't have to have your logistics vehicles chase every individual infantry unit around the map. The 'logistics vehicle -> FOB -> unit' supply chain in A'11 should also be much more efficient than the 'logistics vehicle -> unit' chain familiar from V'65, because in A'11, a FOB is able to fully resupply multiple units from each supply load - the Logistics video confirms that a basic FOB can store a maximum of 5 supply points, each of which can fully resupply an unit, and that each supply load it receives refills it by at least 2 points (possibly always all the way to full, similar to how a single supply load resupplied every unit present at a FOB at once in V'65, and not having to bring the units physically inside the FOB makes taking advantage of it far more practical). This means that the amount of logistics vehicles and micromanagement needed to support a given number of active combat troops should be significantly lower compared to V'65.

I've also read that they're implementing a feature to make it easy to move entire convoys of ground vehicles simultaneously, which should also reduce the amount of micromanagement, to go with the greater focus on ground-based logistics compared to the helicopters that took center stage in V'65. It didn't make it in on time for the preview builds that went out recently.

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Re: How tedious are logistics in this game?

Post by ErissN6 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:57 pm

Soar wrote: they're implementing a feature to make it easy to move entire convoys of ground vehicles simultaneously,
It's a feature missing and asked in some games, such as Pandora First Contact, so when we move a worker, its guard is following.

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Re: How tedious are logistics in this game?

Post by Solaristics » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:35 am

Constans wrote:I really liked the Vietnam game, but eventually put it aside after a few plays because I found the logistics mechanics quite tedious after a while. Sure, it's realistic, but it's boring. The dev mentioned that this was going to be streamlined in Afghanistan, but from the video it is hard to tell if this has been done. It still looks like I need to manually move trucks and helicopters continually between bases - that is, these logistical vehicles need to be in perpetual motion (since unit supply is only a few turns and the time the supply unit takes to return to base, load up and head back to the unit means it has to be constantly shuttling between the base and the unit).

Anybody with experience with the beta who's not under NDA care to comment?

Now that the game is out, are there any thoughts on this? My buying decision pretty much hinges on it.

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Re: How tedious are logistics in this game?

Post by bebro » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:40 pm

I didn't play Vietnam, so don't have a comparison

My impressions so far in Afghanistan:

I absolutely love the whole idea of the game, and the fact that they really did a lot to depict the complexity of such a conflict - but micromanagement *is* IMO one of the downsides here, and it is to some extent related to logistics. Another aspect is IMO that the whole "usability" could be improved, without dumbing down the core game concepts, which are really good.

There are already a couple suggestions on this forum, but to add a few:

1. Looks like wounded/damaged units in a FOB having the facilities to cure/repair need to be moved *exactly* onto the hex representing those facilities. It would reduce MM if they would get auto-repaired/cured starting next turn regardless where they enter the FOB - right now it seems wounded etc. can arrive at the FOB's main hex, but you still need to order them manually to enter the hospital. That means I do not only have to get those units back to the FOB, but I need to "guide" them manually to the correct facility inside the FOB - which is IMO over the top.

2. Also needed IMO: some command to "fortify" units in a base so that they are not popping up for orders every turn. For example, you might wanna wait a tad before you send out some vulnerable supply trucks. Right now you either have to give them orders or skip them manually each turn - this adds quite some clicking. The new command (whether it's called "fortify" or else) would be similar to "sleep" in many games. Of course the current "skip" order should stay in too.

3. There are some functions hinted in the manual that could reduce MM (convoys, unit actions) but it seems they will be added only later.

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Re: How tedious are logistics in this game?

Post by Rosseau » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:14 am

It is great to see some very incisive comments on game improvements that will help the community if "patched." Of course, not every idea will be possible.

As one who is (humbly) in the running for buying everything Matrix throws out there, my new attitude is hurry up and wait. The game will be patched and discounted probably as early as the Steam summer sale. It no longer pays to be a first-day buyer with this company. No hard feelings, just the way it is.

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Re: How tedious are logistics in this game?

Post by JamesHunt » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:48 pm

Glad to hear that a convoy mechanic will be introduced. In A11 you´ve to heavily rely on convoys.

There is a reason why you´ve to move WIA/Vehicles onto that specific spot. Especially in FOB´s repairing/healing/supplying in the specific extensions uses your supplies while staying in the FOB (and slowly replenishing fuel/supplies) does not.

However like I mentioned in a dedicated thread, the "transport logistics" i. e. loading/unloading infantry units can become quiet tedious. Exiting/loading infantry into vehicles several times a round in order to gain intel or to perform IED searches on villages is quiet unnecessary micro-managing. Also auto-unloading helicopter/vehicle transports when reaching HQ/FOBs in order to make a short resupply stay adds redudant micro-manage workload.

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Re: How tedious are logistics in this game?

Post by Every Single Soldier » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:04 pm

The reason we made the unit actually eneter the extensiont o heal is to limit the number of units that can be repaired/healed in one turn, I don't think there should be a situation where you drive four vehicles into the FOB and then they are all fixed on the next turn ?

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