Elephants

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nikgaukroger
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Elephants

Post by nikgaukroger » Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:16 am

Had expected some comments on these :shock:

Any thoughts or suggestions?
Nik Gaukroger

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ravenflight
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Re: Elephants

Post by ravenflight » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:12 am

nikgaukroger wrote:Had expected some comments on these :shock:

Any thoughts or suggestions?
I have NEVER seen an elephant in a FoG:R game.

That said, a bit part of that is because of the 'one shot and they're dead' artillery snipers... which will be a bit issue that disappears (is mitigated) if the artillery are in the first batches.

donm2
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Re: Elephants

Post by donm2 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:17 pm

I used them extensively for a while, using as many as 12 at one year's Britcon. I did ok with them and could have finished in the top three had I not lost my last game.

The problem with elephants, is the armies you find them in. The supporting cavalry is just rubbish up against European pistol types.

Don

nikgaukroger
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Re: Elephants

Post by nikgaukroger » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:30 pm

Does anyone think that the interaction between nellies and their historical opponents is wrong?

Thoughts on points cost as this has been mentioned previously about nellies IIRC.
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Jhykronos
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Re: Elephants

Post by Jhykronos » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:37 am

nikgaukroger wrote:Does anyone think that the interaction between nellies and their historical opponents is wrong?

Thoughts on points cost as this has been mentioned previously about nellies IIRC.
Point cost is my biggest issue. Don't really know enough about their battlefield performance to comment about the simulation, but for game utility you could cut 7 points off their cost.

nikgaukroger
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Re: Elephants

Post by nikgaukroger » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:52 am

Sounds about right to me from my limited experience of them.
Nik Gaukroger

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kevinj
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Re: Elephants

Post by kevinj » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:52 am

I'd thought maybe 14 points if they don't change in any way so it sounds like we're in the right area. I've used them a fair amount and, whilst they can be spectacularly successful, normally they're a bit of a liability.

timmy1
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Re: Elephants

Post by timmy1 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:02 pm

Plea for them to be 15 points for us simpletons - 30 AP a BG is nice and easy...

ravenflight
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Re: Elephants

Post by ravenflight » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:13 am

timmy1 wrote:Plea for them to be 15 points for us simpletons - 30 AP a BG is nice and easy...
In which case I vote for 14.38 points a base.

tamerlan
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Re: Elephants

Post by tamerlan » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:06 pm

I would propose that elephants could be deployed like cavalry, just up to the side edge, which I think was standard practice historically as one of their main functions was an anti-cavalry role.

timmy1
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Re: Elephants

Post by timmy1 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:13 pm

Tamerlan

Not saying you are wrong and my knowledge of the use of Elephants in period is limited but I have not come across examples of them used that way. Can you quote some examples of in period use against mounted on the flanks?

tamerlan
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Re: Elephants

Post by tamerlan » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:25 pm

Actually I have no specific example for our period, but historically I think it is pacific that they did have an anti-cavalry role, and so is reflected in rulesets that cover as well the beginning of renaissance; I do not think either of any reason for that not being the case, but It is true as well that that is not proof ...

hazelbark
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Re: Elephants

Post by hazelbark » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:15 pm

tamerlan wrote:Actually I have no specific example for our period, but historically I think it is pacific that they did have an anti-cavalry role, and so is reflected in rulesets that cover as well the beginning of renaissance; I do not think either of any reason for that not being the case, but It is true as well that that is not proof ...
This is not really historically accurate. In the "elephant" armies they were deployed EVERYWHERE and had an anti-everything role. A certain level of command and control plus stature as well. It is really war gaming rules that have players thinking they were primarily anti-mounted because they were particularly effective versus mounted.

donm2
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Re: Elephants

Post by donm2 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:30 pm

timmy1 wrote:Plea for them to be 15 points for us simpletons - 30 AP a BG is nice and easy...

Would certainly get them out the box again at 15 points each :D :D :D :D

Don

nikgaukroger
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Re: Elephants

Post by nikgaukroger » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:26 pm

donm2 wrote:
timmy1 wrote:Plea for them to be 15 points for us simpletons - 30 AP a BG is nice and easy...

Would certainly get them out the box again at 15 points each :D :D :D :D

Don

Does that mean 15 may be a touch cheap, or about right?
Nik Gaukroger

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If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

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donm2
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Re: Elephants

Post by donm2 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:47 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
donm2 wrote:
timmy1 wrote:Plea for them to be 15 points for us simpletons - 30 AP a BG is nice and easy...

Would certainly get them out the box again at 15 points each :D :D :D :D

Don

Does that mean 15 may be a touch cheap, or about right?
Considering the other alterations you are looking at, I would say 20 points was nearer the mark.

Don

marshalney2000
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Re: Elephants

Post by marshalney2000 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:08 pm

Any thoughts on allowing bigger units of 3 or 4 to increase robustness?

nikgaukroger
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Re: Elephants

Post by nikgaukroger » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:49 pm

Is an increase in robustness needed?
Nik Gaukroger

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If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

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marshalney2000
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Re: Elephants

Post by marshalney2000 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:56 pm

Well just one lucky shot tends to do them in particularly if shot at by artillery or muskets.

donm2
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Re: Elephants

Post by donm2 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:59 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:Is an increase in robustness needed?
I don't think so. You have to keep them hidden from any fire for as long as possible.

You could allow for larger units, but then they would be difficult to hide.

Don

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