Historical Unit Composition

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Khancotlette
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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:05 pm

Then we should talk about 1944 Cavalry Brigades. Historically, there were two of them (3rd and 4th). In 1945 they were transformed into divisions, but I think there is no need to show this template separately, since it played almost no role in the war. You can always just add one more Cavalry Regiment and that should be it, the rest would be the same.

GERMANY
Late War (1944—1945) Cavalry Brigade Template


Image
German Cavalry Brigade. Russia, Spring 1944

The number of Kavallerie regiments was reduced to two. That's what basically makes this template a brigade, not a division (and, perhaps, lack of sappers as well). All other assets are the same with '39 Cavalry Division, but with some upgrades.

Artillery Regiment should switch to a stronger 10,5 cm light field howitzer, since '44 Cavalry Brigades used simple Artillery Regiments, not Mounted ones. Also, the organic transport should be Opel Blitz.

Anti-Tank Battalion (strength 7) should receive the newer and stronger 7,5 cm guns and SdKfz 11 transports to be the same with Infantry Divisions.

Recon Battalion becomes "Armoured Reconnaisance Detachment", so I guess it would be right to equip it with SdKfz 234/1 8Rad. Strength stays 7.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
2 x Kavallerie;
1 x 10,5 cm leFH 18 + Opel Blitz;
1 x 7,5 cm PaK 40/41 + SdKfz 11 (strength 7);
1 x SdKfz 234/1 (strength 7).

The whole setup costs only 14 core slots and 1440 prestige, so it's still quite expensive, but very "fit" in terms of slots, so if you have enough prestige, you could try these guys to fight the Allies in the West. Against the Russians, however, I'm not sure that they could do anything worthy.
Last edited by Khancotlette on Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:17 pm

And, to finish all cavalry units, some bonus/special for you. It's funny enough, but this Russian collaborationist Cossack division used to be the largest Wehrmacht cavalry formation for the most of the war. Its organization was definitely unique and unusual, so let's take a look.

GERMANY
1st Cossack Division (1943—1945) Template


Image
German Cossack Division. Croatia, Summer 1944

The division itself, formed in 1943 and later transformed into a corps, consisted of — be prepared — SIX Cossack Cavalry Regiments. However, for honesty's sake, these regiments weren't equal to a full-strength cavalry unit of neither Wehrmacht nor Red Army. So, I've decided to choose a compromise variant and make two 20-strength Kavallerie units, representing the two brigades of this division. Keeping in mind that their Recon Battalion is also a Kavallerie with the strength of 10, I guess it would be a good way to represent this humongous amount of horse troops.

Cossack Artillery Regiment was a usual mid-war German 10,5 cm light field howitzer regiment. However, the motorization of the Cossack Division was almost non-existent, so they should receive a Wagon.

Also, the Cossack Division also had a Sapper Battalion (1st and 55th). This unit should be un-motorized Pioniere, and not of '43 pattern (even if the division was formed in 1943) to show its auxiliary role.

Basically, that makes Cossack Division a numerically stronger (but less powerful) version of a '44 Cavalry Brigade.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
2 x Kavallerie (strength 20);
1 x Kavallerie (strength 10);
1 x 10,5 cm leFH 18 + Wagon;
1 x Pioniere (strength 10).

The division in total is up to 22 core clots and 1472 prestige. Quite cheap, but costly in terms of manpower, so it's completely up to you to use this unusual division or not. Should be a ton of flavour and roleplay, however!

So, that would be all for cavalry. To be continued with the famous Gebirgsjäger! Stay tuned :)
Last edited by Khancotlette on Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:53 pm

Okay, let's continue. Now we're beginning with Mountain Troops. In general, they follow the regular Infantry patterns, but have some own unique features. I guess, 3 templates would be fine: 1939—1941, 1941—1943 and 1944—1945.

GERMANY
Early War (1939—1940) Mountain Division Template


Image
German Mountain Jaeger. Norway, Summer 1940

So, what can we see. Basically, it's still the same good old 3 infantry — 1 artillery division with AT, Sapper and Recon battalions. For the early war, there should be almost no differences to regular Infantry.

Mountain Jaeger Regiments are made of Gebirgsjäger units, which is quite obvious. Unfortunately, currently in the game there is no heavy or light mountain infantry, so let's just use what we have.

Artillery Regiment. Probably the same story with the Cavalry. It didn't differ much to a regiment of an Infantry Division, but to represent lighter firepower we would use 7,5 cm FK 16 guns instead of 10,5 cm howitzers. A Wagon would carry them.

Anti-Tank Battalion (strength 7) is already perfectly known to use. PaK 36 and Opel Blitz.

Importaint disclaimer: Wagons should be used much oftener than for any other unit due to their ability to move in the mountains, even in 1941 and 1944 templates. In the screenshots and template descriptions I would show trucks and carriers, and they did historically exist in mountain divisions, but you should always be confident to use them. Mountain Divisions had probably the most numerous use of pack animals in the whole Wehrmacht.

Sapper Battalion. Business as usual. 10-strength Pioniere.

And the same for Recon Battalion. Just like for the '39 Infantry we would use a 10-strength Kavallerie.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
3 x Gebirgsjäger;
1 x Pioniere (strength 10);
1 x 7,5 cm FK 16 nA + Wagon;
1 x 3,7 cm PaK 36 + Opel Blitz (strength 7);
1 x Kavallerie (strength 10).

The whole template costs 19 core slots and 1300 prestige. That makes this unit even cheaper than a regular infantry division! I think that's a great opportunity to have more these divisions during early game in the fitting terrain.
Last edited by Khancotlette on Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:06 pm

During the war the Mountain Divisions, as elite units, were passing through the same transformation as the regular infantry, but receiving better equipment and weapons one of the first. That should be represented as well.

GERMANY
Mid-War (1941—1943) Mountain Division Template


Image
German Mountain Jaeger. Caucasus, Autumn 1942

These divisions are mostly for Yugoslavia and Russia. Their main test would be the Caucasus mountains. So it's somewhat reflected by the new organization.

As you could see, there are now only two Mountain Jaeger Regiments. However, Mountain Divisions got a separate battalion (mainly for recon purposes) and two alpinist battalions specially trained for the warfare in the high mountains. So I guess, these three combined would make another full-strength regiment of Gebirgsjäger. Note their snow camo! :) By 1943 they could be upgraded to the newer model.

Artillery Regiment and Anti-Tank Battalion (strength 7) are the same as before, but should be upgraded with 10,5 cm howitzers and 5 cm guns respectively. If for the '41 Infantry 5 cm gun was more an optional purchase, for an elite Mountain Division it should be a standard choice. As a general rule, they should be carried by Opel Blitz, but as I've said before, in many cases Wagon would be a much better choice.

Sapper Battalion stays completely the same.

Recon Battalion should switch to Kradschützen in numbers of 7, as we've decided to use them in order to represent light infantry, bicycle recon and so on. Could be quite a pain to use them in the mountains, but that's the best we could afford.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
3 x Gebirgsjäger;
1 x Pioniere (strength 10);
1 x 10,5 cm leFH 18 + Opel Blitz;
1 x 5 cm PaK 38 + Opel Blitz (strength 7);
1 x Kradschützen (strength 7).

The whole template costs 20 core slots and 1350 prestige. The cost, therefore, is almost the same with the '39 template.
Last edited by Khancotlette on Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:15 pm

And the last one for today. Logically, the late-war Gebirgs-Division.

GERMANY
Late War (1944—1945) Mountain Division Template


Image
German Mountain Jaeger. Italy, Winter 1944/45

As you may remember, German infantry divisions became much smaller and weaker by 1944. Mountain Troops were no exception. More to say, as they needed elite reinforcements, the manpower shortage hit them even harder. Let's see what we've got.

Two Mountain Jaeger Regiments of partial (12) strength, and only one another Separate Battalion with the strength of 10. The only good thing here is that '43 Gebirgsjäger are much better in quality.

Artillery Regiment and Anti-Tank Battalion (strength 7) are mostly the same as before. Just don't forget to upgrade your Tank Hunters to 7,5 cm PaK 40/41 and that should be it. Same story with Opel or Wagon for different terrain.

Sapper Battalion is upgraded to Pioniere '43.

Recon Battalion stays the same. I know that many Mountain Divisions did get Armoured Reconnaisance by that time, but their numbers were such low that it shouldn't be represented in the game. Then we should stay with our motorcyclists until the end of the war.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
2 x Gebirgsjäger '43 (strength 12), 1 x Gebirgsjäger '43 (strength 10);
1 x Pioniere '43 (strength 10);
1 x 10,5 cm leFH 18 + Opel Blitz;
1 x 7,5 cm PaK 40/41 + Opel Blitz (strength 7);
1 x Kradschützen (strength 7).

This late division is up to 24 core slots and 1570 prestige. So, it's quite expensive in comparison to its earlier analogues, and perhaps you won't really need it since there wasn't much of mountainous terrain for the Wehrmacht campaigns of 1944 and 1945.

Mountain Troops are done! Tomorrow I'll try to do the Paratroopers :)
Last edited by Khancotlette on Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:51 am

Hello again! Yeah, I've promised to make Parachute Jaeger, but I've completely forgotten about one more division type, which should be (probably) assigned to Mountain Troops as well. That's a unique Ski Jaeger Division (1. Skijäger-Division), whose ranks were really unusual and I guess it would be interesting to represent them in the game!

GERMANY
Ski Jaeger Division (1944—1945) Template


Image
German Ski Jaeger. Carpathians, Winter 1944/45

Okay, let's go. At first I should say that I think it's a pity that there's no such unit as Jaeger/Light Infantry. Perhaps the devs will add them one day, or maybe even the Ski Troops themselves! But for today, I think, it would be logical enough to make this division made of Mountain Jaeger (with nice some snow camo, of course ;) ). So, what we've got. Ski Jaeger Division was a late-war unit, so we have reduced size due to manpower shortages. However, this division was quite heavily armed and had lots of additional assets. Let's take a closer look.

The backbone of the division is, of course, its ski infantry. We've decided to represent them with '43 Gebirgsjäger. They should compose two Ski Jaeger Regiments with the strength of 12 (remember, it's a late-war division) and one separate Ski Jaeger Battalion with the strength of 10.

All this infantry is, of course, supported by a classical Sapper Battalion. Pioniere '43, strength 10, you know the drill.

The divisional artillery is, probably, the most interesting part. Of course there are "must have" units — an Artillery Regiment with the well-known 10,5 cm leFH howitzers (driven by an Opel Blitz) and an Anti-Tank Battalion, which is armed with 7,5 cm PaK guns, carried by an SdKfz 11. The choice is the same with late war Infantry.

However, there are two unusual guests. The Ski Division had an additional Assault Gun Battalion equipped with StuG III G. Strength is 7 since that's a battalion.

And, in addition to this nice firepower, it even had a Panzerwerfer (Armoured Launcher) Battalion. It was armed with self-propelled rocket systems called Panzerwerfer 42. I guess these would be extremely fun to play, but I have no idea how they are connected to the ski operations. Kind of a mystery! Strength is 7, too.

Finally, the divisional Recon. As most of '44 divisions, Ski Jaeger Division had a "Fusilier Battalion" attached to it for reconnaisance purposes. We've decided to show them as a 10-strength Kradschützen unit. It's also a shame that German motorcyclysts have no camo to choose from! That's why they are not snow-painted on the screenshot :D I hope, the devs will add something for them one day.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
2 x Gebirgsjäger '43 (strength 12), 1 x Gebirgsjäger '43 (strength 10);
1 x Pioniere '43 (strength 10);
1 x 10,5 cm leFH 18 + Opel Blitz;
1 x StuG IIIG (strength 7);
1 x Panzerwerfer 42 (strength 7);
1 x 7,5 cm PaK 40/41 + SdKfz 11 (strength 7);
1 x Kradschützen (strength 10).

Of course, this division won't come cheap. 34 core slots and around 2490 prestige, but I guess they are so unusual, that it could worth it. So, that should be it! A very interesting and notable division for the late game. Stay tuned, more to come! :)
Last edited by Khancotlette on Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:26 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:26 pm

And, also, I've decided to create an index of all my templates in the original post in order to systematize everything and keep the record in one place. I hope it'll be helpful. Enjoy! :)

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by diday » Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:27 pm

Nothing much to add but I love your work (and the weather/mountains maps haha great touch, marvelous)!

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:33 pm

diday wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:27 pm
Nothing much to add but I love your work (and the weather/mountains maps haha great touch, marvelous)!
Many thanks! :)

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:09 pm

Okay, we're moving on. Time for Airbourne Troops. As you may know, their status was quite ambigious. In general, when we mention "German Airbourne Forces", we mean Parachute Jaeger (Fallschirmjäger) units. They were a part of the Luftwaffe (German Air Force), but, of course, they were cooperating with the Heer (German Army) units. However, the Heer itself had some Luftlande (Air Landing) units, which probably should be represented in the game as well. So, firstly I would describe the Luftwaffe airbourne formations and then we would see how we could work all other airmobile units out.

GERMANY
Air Division (1940) Template


Image
German Air Division. Belgium, Spring 1940

This template is more for educational and history purposes. I want to show the earliest division-level parachute formation of the Wehrmacht before moving on. So, we're speaking about the so-called Air Division (Flieger-Division) layout. It preceded the Parachute Jaeger Divisions, which history began in 1941. Then 7th Air Division became 1st Parachute Jaeger one. But what was it like before? Let's see.

Basically, there's not much to say. An Air Division consisted of two Parachute Jaeger Regiments — the original Fallschirmjäger. One of them wasn't yet fully deployed by May 1940, but since that's a generic template, I made both of them full-strength.

And... That should be pretty much it. All other divisional formations and assets were less than one battalion-strong, so we shouldn't represent them in the game. The only other thing I've added is division's organic air support — one Transport Squadron (Transportgeschwader) to be represented by Ju 52 and one Reconnaissance Staffel (Aufklärungsstaffel), best match for which would be Fi 156 Storch with the strength of 7. So a very light and compact airbourne division, but in the game it could work, since basically all you have to do is to buy two parachute regiments and a recon plane.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
2 x Fallschirmjäger + Ju 52 (Transport Plane) or DFS 230 (Glider);
1 x Fieseler Fi 156 Storch (strength 7).

This unit would cost almost nothing: 7 core slots and about 370 prestige. You shouldn't consider it a self-constituent independent division, just like a some nice addition to your other formations. In the next post I'll talk about more serious, full-strength Parachute Jaeger Division of 1941. Stay tuned :)
Last edited by Khancotlette on Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:24 pm

And now we're meeting the first case when the engine and mechanic restrictions get in our way. As you know, only a small amount of units can be air-transported in PzC 2, especially in the early game until 1942 when you only have Ju 52 and infantry gliders, who can't carry much weight. And the units also couldn't have any transport to do so. So I'll post two templates here — a fully historical one (it would be in the end of the post) and a available for air transportation in the terms of the game.

GERMANY
Early Parachute Jaeger Division (1941—1943) Template
(Air-transportable version for the early game)

Image
German Paratroopers. Crete, Summer 1941

So. We have two tasks here — keep the historical divisional structure and make the template airmobile. This basically means that we should use the lightest possible gun versions and no organic transport. Really sad, but that's the game mechanics. If we take this in account, then the template should look this way:

Three Parachute Jaeger Regiments are made of Fallschirmjäger (don't forget to upgrade them in 1943). No troubles here.

Sapper Battalion is the same. A unit of Pioniere (strength 10) which is already well-known to you.

The interesting detail is that FJ Divisions had a separate Machine Gun Battalion in their ranks. I guess, the best possible way to show it is to add another 10-strength unit of the Grenadier.

Then goes the artillery. In my opinion, while infantry units of the division can be transported by both DFS 230 Gliders and planes, the artillery ones are only for Ju 52. '41 FJ Divisions had no organic air units, so we won't show them for now.

Artillery Battalion (not Regiment, as we have seen before) would get the only air-transportable German field gun — the 7,5 cm one.

Anti-Tank Battalion would receive 3,7 cm PaK 36 for the same reasons.

And the Anti-Air Battalion seems to be the trickiest. Historically, it consisted of heavy and light batteries. Heavy battaries were armed with the iconic 8,8 cm FlaK 36, while the light ones used 2 cm FlaK 30/38. The last ones are airmobile in the game, but I think it would be better to make this unit a Flakvierling 38. It wasn't vastly used by the Parachute Jaeger, but it's air-transportable and a bit more powerful than a regular version of the 2 cm. Thus, this unit would allow to represent the anti-aircraft capabilities of a FJ Division much better.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
3 x Fallschirmjäger + Ju 52 (Transport Plane) or DFS 230 (Glider);
1 x Pioniere + Ju 52 (Transport Plane) or DFS 230 (Glider);
1 x Grenadier + Ju 52 (Transport Plane) or DFS 230 (Glider);
1 x 7,5 cm FK 16 nA + Ju 52 (strength 7);
1 x 3,7 cm PaK 36 + Ju 52 (strength 7);
1 x 2 cm Flakvierling 38 + Ju 52 (strength 7).

The cost of this set is such: 20 core slots (if we don't count the planes, which are pre-requisite in the scenario design) and circa 1300 prestige. Just keep in mind that only this set of '41 Fallschirmäger would be fully air-transportable. If you want a historical divisional layout, see the next part of the post.

GERMANY
Early Parachute Jaeger Division (1941—1943) Template
(Historical layout, won't be fully air-transportable)

Image
German Paratroopers. Russia, Summer 1942

The template is basically the same, but with organic transport (Opel Blitz for AT Battalion, SdKfz 7 for AA Battalion and Wagon for Artillery Battalion), and all the guns are much more powerful: 7,5 cm AT, 8,8 cm AA and 10,5 cm Artillery. That would be closest match to the historical layout of a Parachute Division, but won't be airmobile in PzC 2.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
3 x Fallschirmjäger + Ju 52 (Transport Plane) or DFS 230 (Glider);
1 x Pioniere + Ju 52 (Transport Plane) or DFS 230 (Glider);
1 x Grenadier + Ju 52 (Transport Plane) or DFS 230 (Glider);
1 x 10,5 cm leFH 18 + Wagon + Ju 52 (strength 7);
1 x 7,5 cm PaK 40/41 + Opel Blitz + Ju 52 (strength 7);
1 x 8,8 cm FlaK 36 + SdKfz 7 + Ju 52 (strength 7).

That would make 24 slots and 1880 prestige without planes. I think this is still useful for the game, just take in account that not all assets would be airmobile. But they could be great for your scenarios when the FJ have already landed, for example.
Last edited by Khancotlette on Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:02 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by adiekmann » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:38 pm

I'm curious to see what you do with your Panzer Divisions because if you consider each tank unit in the game as a regiment, you'll run into serious problems.

After Panzer divisions were reorganized in Fall and Winter '40/41, all divisions were stripped of one of their panzer regiments in order to form new panzer divisions. Therefore beginning with Barbarossa, Panzer divisions only had one panzer regiment. To make it worse going forward, many of them only had a single panzer battalion per regiment as war loses mounted and so forth. Sure, you can call your single battalion-sized regiments "Pz.Rgt. xx" even though it is only a single battalion in size, but what about those divisions that actually maintained 2 panzer battalions per regiment? (7th Panzer actually had three panzer battalions in '41, then down to 2 after "rest and refit" in 1942.) So your model will break down or will be based on panzer divisions' compositions that are historically correct only through the Battle of France. Those panzer divisions before the reorganization only had one infantry regiment too, but were given a second one to offset the loss of a Panzer regiment. To make it worse, their artillery regiments were upgraded from 2 to 3 battalions as well. (Infantry divisions always had three artillery battalions from the start.) Hence, I favor each game unit representing battalions instead among other reasons.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:51 pm

adiekmann wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:38 pm
I'm curious to see what you do with your Panzer Divisions because if you consider each tank unit in the game as a regiment, you'll run into serious problems.

After Panzer divisions were reorganized in Fall and Winter '40/41, all divisions were stripped of one of their panzer regiments in order to form new panzer divisions. Therefore beginning with Barbarossa, Panzer divisions only had one panzer regiment. To make it worse going forward, many of them only had a single panzer battalion per regiment as war loses mounted and so forth. Sure, you can call your single battalion-sized regiments "Pz.Rgt. xx" even though it is only a single battalion in size, but what about those divisions that actually maintained 2 panzer battalions per regiment? (7th Panzer actually had three panzer battalions in '41, then down to 2 after "rest and refit" in 1942.) So your model will break down or will be based on panzer divisions' compositions that are historically correct only through the Battle of France. Those panzer divisions before the reorganization only had one infantry regiment too, but were given a second one to offset the loss of a Panzer regiment. To make it worse, their artillery regiments were upgraded from 2 to 3 battalions as well. (Infantry divisions always had three artillery battalions from the start.) Hence, I favor each game unit representing battalions instead among other reasons.
I take battalions into account, too. And I guess there is nothing wrong to have a plenty of different armoured divisions' variants, just following the general historical pattern :) And I also see no problem with a Panzer division which would have much more infantry and other assets than actual tanks for the beginning. But your concerns are reasonable, I hope we'll figure something out! :)

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by R2G2 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:12 pm

Also curious and eagerly waiting to see to see your Panzer Division Templates :D Keep up the good work.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:35 pm

R2G2 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:12 pm
Also curious and eagerly waiting to see to see your Panzer Division Templates :D Keep up the good work.
Thanks! I'll try my best :) We also should take in account, that all these strength numbers (20, 15, 12, 10 and 7) are mainly for scenario design (when the AI enemy would also have the same-size units), not for playing the basic game, especially the last Russian scenarios with all these 20's and 25's :D . In the basic game you can only buy and build standard (15/10) units or their stronger versions, so I guess that each division, including the Panzer one would be much stronger than I propose here, and the player could only take the historical numbers of units, but their strength would be "full" and that would be much better for gameplay's sake.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by adiekmann » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:26 pm

Khancotlette wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:35 pm
R2G2 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:12 pm
Also curious and eagerly waiting to see to see your Panzer Division Templates :D Keep up the good work.
Thanks! I'll try my best :) We also should take in account, that all these strength numbers (20, 15, 12, 10 and 7) are mainly for scenario design (when the AI enemy would also have the same-size units), not for playing the basic game, especially the last Russian scenarios with all these 20's and 25's :D . In the basic game you can only buy and build standard (15/10) units or their stronger versions, so I guess that each division, including the Panzer one would be much stronger than I propose here, and the player could only take the historical numbers of units, but their strength would be "full" and that would be much better for gameplay's sake.
Thanks for that clarification. That's an important point that I wasn't aware of either.

As far as your earlier response to my Panzer Division comment, it just illustrates how difficult and complicated it can get. Ultimately, you can't replicate a division accurately AND have the balance that you need for the game. The game is PANZER Corps after all, not INFANTRY Corps. So for game design and play reasons, no matter what you do you'll end up with some compromises somewhere.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:31 pm

adiekmann wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:26 pm
Khancotlette wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:35 pm
R2G2 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:12 pm
Also curious and eagerly waiting to see to see your Panzer Division Templates :D Keep up the good work.
Thanks! I'll try my best :) We also should take in account, that all these strength numbers (20, 15, 12, 10 and 7) are mainly for scenario design (when the AI enemy would also have the same-size units), not for playing the basic game, especially the last Russian scenarios with all these 20's and 25's :D . In the basic game you can only buy and build standard (15/10) units or their stronger versions, so I guess that each division, including the Panzer one would be much stronger than I propose here, and the player could only take the historical numbers of units, but their strength would be "full" and that would be much better for gameplay's sake.
Thanks for that clarification. That's an important point that I wasn't aware of either.

As far as your earlier response to my Panzer Division comment, it just illustrates how difficult and complicated it can get. Ultimately, you can't replicate a division accurately AND have the balance that you need for the game. The game is PANZER Corps after all, not INFANTRY Corps. So for game design and play reasons, no matter what you do you'll end up with some compromises somewhere.
Sure! It's always a matter of some compromise :)

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by George_Parr » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:46 pm

Khancotlette wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:51 am
However, there are two unusual guests. The Ski Division had an additional Assault Gun Battalion equipped with StuG III. The game only has StuG III model "B", so let's choose it. Strength is 7 since that's a battalion
Shouldn't that be a StuG III F or G?
The game may have those listed as tank destroyers, but they do exist, and it is highly unlikely that any Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung would still be equipped with short-barrelled StuGs by 1944. By that time you would either expect a full set of long-barrelled ones, if used as an anti-tank unit, or two platoons of StuG III G paired with one platoon of StuH42 if used in its original role.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:47 am

George_Parr wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:46 pm
Khancotlette wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 11:51 am
However, there are two unusual guests. The Ski Division had an additional Assault Gun Battalion equipped with StuG III. The game only has StuG III model "B", so let's choose it. Strength is 7 since that's a battalion
Shouldn't that be a StuG III F or G?
The game may have those listed as tank destroyers, but they do exist, and it is highly unlikely that any Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung would still be equipped with short-barrelled StuGs by 1944. By that time you would either expect a full set of long-barrelled ones, if used as an anti-tank unit, or two platoons of StuG III G paired with one platoon of StuH42 if used in its original role.
That's a good point, they did use StuG III G. I just didn't think that it was in the AT section, my bad! :D I'll edit the post.

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Re: Historical Unit Composition

Post by Khancotlette » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:18 am

And another paratrooper division comes!

GERMANY
Late Parachute Jaeger Division (1944—1945) Template


Image
German Parachute Jaeger. Italy, Spring 1944

For a late-game Parachute Division the game has mercy on us — we got some nice Me 323 Gigant, which is able to carry all necessary division assets! So hallelujah, one template this time. Just remember that the organic transport is still unable to move by plane, so you shouldn't buy it if you want the division to be fully airmobile. And also keep in mind that Me 323 began to be used in large numbers since late 1942, so you probably could use it with the historical template of an early FJ Division from the previous post.

So.

The Parachute Jaeger Division was surprisingly strong and decent for a '44 layout — way stronger than a regular Infantry Division. It still had classic 3 Parachute Regiments of 3 battalions each (Infantry switched to 2 battalions by that moment). So, no changes here — '43 Fallschirmjäger, strength 15.

Sapper Battalion ('43 Pioniere) and Machine Gun Battalion ('43 Grenadier) stay the same as before.

The first new unit here is Mortar Battalion. And yes, we have some problems with its representation. Of course there is no 12 cm Granatwerfer 42 in the game, since that was an infantry mortar and it is implied that heavy infantry like Grenadier use them. So it's up to you — either take another battalion of Grenadier or choose some artillery of equatable caliber. For Germany it could be possibly only another leFH 18 if you mean to buy it for a regular scenario. But for a designed scenario you could probably do it my way in this particular template (for some diversity purpose). So, what's the idea? To use the Soviet trophy 122mm M38 howitzer. Why? Because the original 12 cm Granatwerfer was basically a German modification of the trophy Soviet 120mm PM38 mortar, and I guess it would be a right thing to use then a Russian howitzer of mostly the same caliber. Of course I'm not implying that a howitzer and a mortar are the same things even with a similar ammunition, but that's just the best way to represent this battalion which I could come up with. But, as I've said, it's completely up to you — another Grenadier, 10,5 cm howitzer, some trophy gun or maybe even nothing :)

Okay, let's go next. The divisional artillery grew stronger — now it's a full-strength Artillery Regiment. 10,5 cm leFH 18 and Opel Blitz — some undying classics.

Anti-Tank Battalion got more SP guns, and I think we could represent it the same way with the Volksgrenadier — by transforming it into StuG IV 7-strong unit. But take in account that it won't be airmobile! Standard 7,5 cm PaK with SdKfz 11 would be a transportable alternative.

And the Anti-Aircraft Battalion stays the same with the previous historical template — 8,8 cm FlaK gun and SdKfz 7 half-truck.

TEMPLATE TOTALS
3 x Fallschirmjäger '43 + Ju 52, DFS 230 or Me 323 Gigant;
1 x Pioniere '43 + Ju 52, DFS 230 or Me 323 Gigant (strength 10);
1 x Grenadier '43 + Ju 52, DFS 230 or Me 323 Gigant (strength 10);
Either 1 x Grenadier '43 (strength 10) or 1 x 10,5 cm leFH 18 (strength 7) + Opel Blitz. Author's vision: 1 x Soviet 122mm M1938 + SdKfz 11 (strength 7). Transported by Me 323 Gigant.
1 x 10,5 cm leFH 18 + Opel Blitz + Me 323 Gigant;
Either 1 x 7,5 cm PaK 40/41 + Opel Blitz + Me 323 Gigant (strength 7) or StuG IV (strength 7) — not airmobile.
1 x 8,8 cm FlaK 36 + SdKfz 7 + Me 323 Gigant (strength 7).

The cost of the template: 34 core slots (if we don't count the planes, which are pre-requisite in the scenario design) and circa 2440 prestige. Expensive for sure, but this division is really good for 1944—1945. Some cost alternates are of course possible due to the Mortar Battalion and Anti-Tank Battalion variables.

That should be all regarding regular Airbourne Divisions. However, I also think of making a separate template for Ramcke Parachute Brigade, which was quite a notorious unit. Then I should probably try to make some Brandenburger but I'm not sure how to portray them in the game, and same with Luftlande units. But that's another story, I guess. Probably I'll figure something out, or, if not, I'll begin the Motorised Infantry next! Stay tuned :)
Last edited by Khancotlette on Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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