AO1942 and Beyond

[euramer]

Even if I am really interested by WWII history, have visited a lots of sites and compiled the historical documentation to match, like some other participant to this forum, I have played enough of "the slow defensive grind to AO1945 on both of the fronts" in different games and wish to explore alternate evolutions: I want to be surprised! Either by battles which have not yet be documented or by "what if..." as an alternate twist to the war. It could lead to WWII continuing in 1946 (like in the Comics "Wunderwaffen" with new weapons and applied technologies) or some countries changing allegiance.
Another point is that I have really enjoyed when the AI is also playing with you some allies, in particular in the case of the "unruly" Spaniards of the first DLC, which put some more spices to the game. In the end it is just that: A good game, with a far away end... I hope.

[impossible]

Even if I am really interested by WWII history, have visited a lots of sites and compiled the historical documentation to match, like some other participant to this forum, I have played enough of "the slow defensive grind to AO1945 on both of the fronts" in different games and wish to explore alternate evolutions: I want to be surprised! Either by battles which have not yet be documented or by "what if..." as an alternate twist to the war. It could lead to WWII continuing in 1946 (like in the Comics "Wunderwaffen" with new weapons and applied technologies) or some countries changing allegiance.
Another point is that I have really enjoyed when the AI is also playing with you some allies, in particular in the case of the "unruly" Spaniards of the first DLC, which put some more spices to the game. In the end it is just that: A good game, with a far away end... I hope.

a plausible what if scenario in my opinion is if the anglo-british alliance attacked the soviet union as they planned during the course of the winter war. that was a real possibility and would have completely changed the course of history. the possible paths from that scenario are endless.

[Jadefang]

Like many here I dislike the long defensive grind towards an eventual defeat. My suggestion for an alternative timeline would be in AO 1944: The General is given an option to join the July 20th 1944 coup by Staufenberg et al. to remove Hitler. If you refuse to take part in the coup, the regular timeline continues. If you accept, the alternative history path is started.

The alternative campaign starts with a civil war like scenario in urban Berlin vs. the Nazi government. You will be forced to leave behind (or even fight against some of) your most elite units and start with new core armies.
After a few civil war-style missions, the Staufenberg coup is successful and Ludwig Beck becomes the new head of state. However, both the Western Allies and the Soviets reject any peace talks and demand unconditional surrender, and so the war continues.

[George_Parr]

Like many here I dislike the long defensive grind towards an eventual defeat. My suggestion for an alternative timeline would be in AO 1944: The General is given an option to join the July 20th 1944 coup by Staufenberg et al. to remove Hitler. If you refuse to take part in the coup, the regular timeline continues. If you accept, the alternative history path is started.

The alternative campaign starts with a civil war like scenario in urban Berlin vs. the Nazi government. You will be forced to leave behind (or even fight against some of) your most elite units and start with new core armies.
After a few civil war-style missions, the Staufenberg coup is successful and Ludwig Beck becomes the new head of state. However, both the Western Allies and the Soviets reject any peace talks and demand unconditional surrender, and so the war continues.

How does that really change from a long defensive grind towards an eventual defeat though?
If the regular path ends up in doom, then any coup attempt should end in an even quicker one. I mean, how would you expect an army that is all but guaranteed to lose to somehow win after it had parts of it turn against itself?

Not that an alternate history DLC couldn't be interesting, and this particular idea definately would offer a unique perspective, but you don't really change anything about playing a losing path. It's not like politics has any sort of role in this game, so you wouldn't have much of an impact on that level either. At best you'd get some fictional scenarios which may or may not be interesting, and the hope that the story that gets told in the briefings adds a ton of excitement. But that's something that is independent from the content of a scenario anyway.

[Jadefang]

You are right, the post was only half-thought out and the how to leave the loosing path left unexplained. I primarily thought of the point of diverging timelines.

Historically the allied reaction towards to July 20 plotters was negative, but perhaps, after a successful battle of the bulge and a Republican German victory in the west, maybe peace terms could be negotiated, especially if a reformed Germany seems like the lesser evil relative to the Soviet Union. The rest of the campaign could then focus on the Soviet Union.

[Vorskl]

Like many here I dislike the long defensive grind towards an eventual defeat. My suggestion for an alternative timeline would be in AO 1944: The General is given an option to join the July 20th 1944 coup by Staufenberg et al. to remove Hitler. If you refuse to take part in the coup, the regular timeline continues. If you accept, the alternative history path is started.

The alternative campaign starts with a civil war like scenario in urban Berlin vs. the Nazi government. You will be forced to leave behind (or even fight against some of) your most elite units and start with new core armies.
After a few civil war-style missions, the Staufenberg coup is successful and Ludwig Beck becomes the new head of state. However, both the Western Allies and the Soviets reject any peace talks and demand unconditional surrender, and so the war continues.

By July 20th 1944 Army group 'Center' virtually ceased to exist and Army group 'North' was about to be blocked in Kurland. Enjoy your setup - even Edmon wont help it by that time.
My two cents - any remotely plausible 'what ifs' are feasible in 1942; become sci-fi-like stories in 1943 and completely elves and dragons fantasy tales in 1944+

[Snake97644]

Like many here I dislike the long defensive grind towards an eventual defeat. My suggestion for an alternative timeline would be in AO 1944: The General is given an option to join the July 20th 1944 coup by Staufenberg et al. to remove Hitler. If you refuse to take part in the coup, the regular timeline continues. If you accept, the alternative history path is started.

The alternative campaign starts with a civil war like scenario in urban Berlin vs. the Nazi government. You will be forced to leave behind (or even fight against some of) your most elite units and start with new core armies.
After a few civil war-style missions, the Staufenberg coup is successful and Ludwig Beck becomes the new head of state. However, both the Western Allies and the Soviets reject any peace talks and demand unconditional surrender, and so the war continues.

By July 20th 1944 Army group 'Center' virtually ceased to exist and Army group 'North' was about to be blocked in Kurland. Enjoy your setup - even Edmon wont help it by that time.
My two cents - any remotely plausible 'what ifs' are feasible in 1942; become sci-fi-like stories in 1943 and completely elves and dragons fantasy tales in 1944+

Agree, that's why I think they should do the standard route, then offer an ahistorical AO that picks up in '41 or '42. I think that is the only way that they can do justice to both camps, and not have a silly "victory" ala OBB. The ahistorical path should branch early; that would allow the Devs to really get creative, and give us some truly unique content.

[asuser]

Is there an approximate date for the next DLC? Are there any bug fixes or new LUA functions planned as part of a new patch?

[Magni]

You are right, the post was only half-thought out and the how to leave the loosing path left unexplained. I primarily thought of the point of diverging timelines.

Historically the allied reaction towards to July 20 plotters was negative, but perhaps, after a successful battle of the bulge and a Republican German victory in the west, maybe peace terms could be negotiated, especially if a reformed Germany seems like the lesser evil relative to the Soviet Union. The rest of the campaign could then focus on the Soviet Union.

Utterly implausible. A succesful Battle of the Bulge doesn't stop the Red Army, doesn't stop the Allies from continuing the war and, if it goes on that long, doesn't stop the Allies from nuking german cities one after another come summer. The Allies were dead set on unconditional surrender, and there was not a chance in the world they'd consider some german military junta trying to play nice in a comically obvious show as a lesser evil to the Soviets that were fighting alongside them. Least of all the Americans. The Allied war was fundamentally not one against nazism, but one against the german militarism that, as far as they were concerned, had been the main cause of BOTH world wars. And the only way to properly bury that was a complete, unconditional surrender and occupation of Germany. To Roosevelt, Truman & Co. Hitler and the nazis were merely the symptom of a deeper rot permeating the entirety of the german nation that had to be burned out.

[makoto14]

Just bumping this with the stickie post for people who missed it.
https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewto ... 8&t=106024

It is also the first Axis Operations DLC with more than one ending. Given the importance of the battle of Stalingrad, seen by many as the real turning point of the war, you will see different outcomes depending on how well you perform there.

Thanks Kerensky!!!!