please explain

[scorehouse]

the reason to surrender most of your prestige for 9 commendation points at the start of the invasion of England? i quickly became prestige depleted. what do the rewarded scavengers salvage and repair that makes it worthwhile? and is it a must? hate going from 50k to 8500 when i know i'm up against bad odds and securing prestige will greatly slow my advance on all objectives.

[WalterTFD]

You don't have to do it, those commendation points don't get you anything absolutely earth shaking. If your play experience is being negatively effected, just decline the offer and move on with your run.

[sakura006]

Without taking the prestige sink, you can't have all the commendation reward even if you finish all the secondary objects. The main purpose of the prestige sink is to prevent experienced players from having too much prestige, and give them a bit more challenge. If you think the game becomes so hard when losing so much prestige, just don't take it. Most of commendation rewards are lame in my opinion except those super heroes.

[Magni]

The "salvagers" in this case literally are just those extra CP. You then get offers of captured equipment for CP in all three Sealion scenarios after Dover. First one gets you a big pile of Spitfires for 6 CP, second a big pile of Matilda IIs for 8 CP and third gets you a big pile of Beaufighters and a couple Spitfires, Hurricanes and Matilda IIs for 9 CP. Pretty much all of those are good equipment that will stay useful for a good long while.

[scorehouse]

thanks

[Kerensky]

1. Prestige is extra generous, because running of out prestige is a campaign ending event. Hence you floating at 50k, which is effectively unlimited for all intents and purposes. (And higher difficulty and optional modes are very good at extracting higher prestige costs.)
2. Special rewards that are not purchase-able, no matter how much prestige you have, sometimes ask the player to engage in prestige slashing events. As you noticed, engaging with the event puts you at a prestige level that is actually going to require some careful thought and management of resources, instead of being able to easily ignore that mechanic.

So it comes down to this:

Do you want to sit happily on your bank, but miss out on some unique and normally totally un-acquirable goodies? Especially stocks of Allied aircraft, as there is no capture mechanic for enemy planes.

The choice is up to each player to make for themselves.

[mdh_slith]

You can always spend the prestige on units for reserve then disband them after the surrender of prestige for CP and get the prestige back.

[scorehouse]

r u sure this works?

[dalfrede]

[/quote]

You can always spend the prestige on units for reserve then disband them after the surrender of prestige for CP and get the prestige back.

r u sure this works?

Yes. it came up in the Beta and Kerensky stated that they were not going to 'fix' it.
The Devs are not interested in nerfing every little 'cheat' that players can come up with, it isn't worth their time.

[Kerensky]

Yes. it came up in the Beta and Kerensky stated that they were not going to 'fix' it.
The Devs are not interested in nerfing every little 'cheat' that players can come up with, it isn't worth their time.

I dunno if that's how I'd put it.

My objection to changing it would require a fix that does not damage players who are naturally using the reserve system as it is intended. We want players to have a large reserve, because a large reserve is a healthy thing to have for the huge diversity of scenarios present in a Grand Campaign environment.

There are entire scenarios that completely exclude multiple, entire classes of units (your 'ground units only' battles and now the new 'air units only battles' we have only begun to see with Dunkirk 1940).

Show me the fix that does not unduly punish players, and there is no objection.

As soon as you mandate rules like 'only 15 units allowed in reserve at all times' or 'no multiple 8.8cm FlaK guns allowed in reserve'... well the former is harmful to normal players who want to preserve Gift Units and treat them as collector trophies (keep the Verjeda in reserve forever instead of upgrading it to something new and losing it forever) and the latter... pretty sure people blocked from buying expensive 88s are just find the next most expensive unit.

I mean, even if we put in the strictest conceivable rules in place to clamp down on people figuring out ways to 'hide' their prestige in reserve... do you have any idea how easy it is to just cheat, and accomplish the same effect of having whatever prestige amount you want to give yourself. Cheat Engine is so easy to use for basic manipulation of stored data values.

And do you know what the answer to that problem required? Requiring your single player offline game to have an always online connection to a game server that is constantly monitoring your game to make sure you're not cheating and in-sync with what information the server is storing.


Personally, I'd rather not take Panzer Corps 2 into that modern trend of singleplayer offline games requiring an always on internet connection. If the price is we have to let players play they want, even going so far as to figure out dirty tricks to hide their prestige from the game systems? Knock yourself out, it's your game to play as you see fit.

[Vorskl]

Yes. it came up in the Beta and Kerensky stated that they were not going to 'fix' it.
The Devs are not interested in nerfing every little 'cheat' that players can come up with, it isn't worth their time.

I dunno if that's how I'd put it.

My objection to changing it would require a fix that does not damage players who are naturally using the reserve system as it is intended. We want players to have a large reserve, because a large reserve is a healthy thing to have for the huge diversity of scenarios present in a Grand Campaign environment.

There are entire scenarios that completely exclude multiple, entire classes of units (your 'ground units only' battles and now the new 'air units only battles' we have only begun to see with Dunkirk 1940).

Show me the fix that does not unduly punish players, and there is no objection.

As soon as you mandate rules like 'only 15 units allowed in reserve at all times' or 'no multiple 8.8cm FlaK guns allowed in reserve'... well the former is harmful to normal players who want to preserve Gift Units and treat them as collector trophies (keep the Verjeda in reserve forever instead of upgrading it to something new and losing it forever) and the latter... pretty sure people blocked from buying expensive 88s are just find the next most expensive unit.

Kerensky, you're absolutely right in not punishing the cautious players retroactively.
However, one trick to explore is introduce a spare parts limit on the high-end items, such as 21cm guns. You did it with Sturer Emil and Dicker Max, and it worked fine.

[Kerensky]

Kerensky, you're absolutely right in not punishing the cautious players retroactively.
However, one trick to explore is introduce a spare parts limit on the high-end items, such as 21cm guns. You did it with Sturer Emil and Dicker Max, and it worked fine.

You may not be aware of this, especially how often you like to specifically invoke my name for every topic under the sun regarding Panzer Corps 2 ( ), but would it surprise you to hear that decision was an extremely controversial one that required a lead dev overwriting someone else's explicit objection to push it forward?

I am not the be all end all authority of Panzer Corps 2.

I just really like to talk about the game a lot.

[Magni]

well the former is harmful to normal players who want to preserve Gift Units and treat them as collector trophies (keep the Verjeda in reserve forever instead of upgrading it to something new and losing it forever)

That may be the worst example out of the gift units tbh. All you need is a Phased Movement hero and the Verdeja will be your fightiest recon for basically the entire rest of the war.

[adiekmann]

I only once loaded up on units for my "Cayman Islands" reserve, and I don't think I'd bother ever again. It was annoying to buy 70+ OS 8.8 cm Flak guns and then resell them after the prestige sink. I think we've been given assurances that this game will NOT have a soft cap that makes stockpiling your prestige an issue like it was in PC's GC.

I DO USE it however to store extra infantry, aircraft, guns among others so that I can have them later and still play with Denied Artillery/Aircraft. For instance, I buy additional bf 109s in '39 so I have them in 1940 while also gaining the extra trait points from Denied Air Force. So, yeah, I would not be happy for practical purposes if limitations were placed on the reserve system. My concern is always to keep all of my units near max exp as I can. Therefore, I rotate them out so that by the end of '41 all my 6 fighters are similar levels of exp, not one with 4500 and the other with only 456. That's also why I reassign most of my heroes frequently.

[Vorskl]

Kerensky, you're absolutely right in not punishing the cautious players retroactively.
However, one trick to explore is introduce a spare parts limit on the high-end items, such as 21cm guns. You did it with Sturer Emil and Dicker Max, and it worked fine.

You may not be aware of this, especially how often you like to specifically invoke my name for every topic under the sun regarding Panzer Corps 2 ( ), but would it surprise you to hear that decision was an extremely controversial one that required a lead dev overwriting someone else's explicit objection to push it forward?

I am not the be all end all authority of Panzer Corps 2.

I just really like to talk about the game a lot.

From what I observed, it is only you and Edmon active at this forum. And my wild guess is Edmon is more on a marketing side, hence you're the face of the SL for me
Which decision do you mean - to limit Stuer and Dicker? I think there should be a 'Meta-strategy' decision (if not already) within SL what game are you building - a history-based or a 'gamified' RPG-like strategy? As much as I like heroes, I think they are superpowered and steer us away from the mainstream battle experience. Just a simple math: every DLC is let's say 12 scenarios. WIth SCW, it is 8 DLC * 12 = 100 heroes (!) Which is more than a total number of units to deploy. The largest so far I think was 110 slots Moscow, which is give or take 25-30 units at maximum. Meaning soon there will be no active units to assign heroes to

The same 'gamification' applies to units. The only scenarios that present some fiscal challenges are Ebro and Epson. Even without Edmon's four, it is possible to stockpile 88s and 21cms to the roof. But 88 were rather scarce - at Rasseinai, it took Germans a day to find one (!) 88 and move it to shot down a KV that blocked the road. 85mm Soviet AA guns that were captured en masse were sent to Germany for retrofitting to 88mm projectiles.

Nothing wrong about rpg/gamification per se, it is just if the game follows that route, hopefully the number of rpg aficionados gained will outweigh the number of history purists lost.

[Scrapulous]

would it surprise you to hear that decision was an extremely controversial one that required a lead dev overwriting someone else's explicit objection to push it forward?

It surprises me! I think all German equipment should be limited the way Vorskl suggests. I write this a lot, so it may not be news to anybody But it seems so clear to me that giving players an option to play this way would enhance the game, that it surprises me to learn that there are people who disagree. It shouldn't; this is a professional problem I have often, and I frequently have to convince teammates of the benefits of a particular change.

Anyway, I appreciate that the DLC is giving us access to German equipment that doesn't just come in unlimited amounts from the Magical German Super Factory that is completely unaffected by shortages or other production limitations. So the next time you get an objection over that, you can let them know that Scrap said it's ok. I'm sure that will clear up any problems

[Bee1976]

As much as I like heroes, I think they are superpowered and steer us away from the mainstream battle experience. Just a simple math: every DLC is let's say 12 scenarios. WIth SCW, it is 8 DLC * 12 = 100 heroes (!) Which is more than a total number of units to deploy. The largest so far I think was 110 slots Moscow, which is give or take 25-30 units at maximum. Meaning soon there will be no active units to assign heroes to

Hehe, bad heros guard my reserve Or get sold for some prestige.
But you can lower your hero chance in the advanced options. My next playthrough will follow my own hero rules, if a unit is destroyed, i will sell all assigned heros, considering them "dead".


@Topic
I think prestige is working fine right now. I use the system as a benchmark. I try to schieve all cp possible, and accept all prestige sinks. If i still "drown" in prestige my next playthrough will become "harder" for me. If i struggle to maintain a healthy prestige level i try to improve my playstyle.
I banked prestige in reserve only on my first playthrough on "generalism", i never did it again. I think its unfun to buy and sell tons of 88's.

Fun Fact:
Arrogant is a real prestige burner. There are so many situations in which i take "heavier losses" then expected

[VirgilInTheSKY]

Fun Fact:
Arrogant is a real prestige burner. There are so many situations in which i take "heavier losses" then expected

Not when you pick "unlimited undo".
Anyway, when you have learned how is everything working, there should be no trouble with Arrogant as you were able to expect the result, I think.

[Kerensky]

@Topic
I think prestige is working fine right now. I use the system as a benchmark. I try to schieve all cp possible, and accept all prestige sinks. If i still "drown" in prestige my next playthrough will become "harder" for me. If i struggle to maintain a healthy prestige level i try to improve my playstyle.
I banked prestige in reserve only on my first playthrough on "generalism", i never did it again. I think its unfun to buy and sell tons of 88's.

Fun Fact:
Arrogant is a real prestige burner. There are so many situations in which i take "heavier losses" then expected

That is the perfect way to play, because you have come up with your own unique formula for what is fun for you.

And if you think Arrogant is bad, combine it with Uphill Battle special challenge. That's ultra RIP all prestige gaming right there. That Sea Lion 'reset' to 8500 actually was a boost to my prestige because the double combo of Abbeville and going for Char 2C bonus in Neufchateau completely shattered my prestige in 1940.