Panzer Corps goes Pacific

A new story begins...
The sequel to a real classic: Panzer Corps is back!

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Edmon
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by Edmon »

GomezAdams wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:11 pm
Edmon wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:08 am I hope to have some information soon...
Soon™

:wink:
:(. Let me assure you, work is going on full bore... as soon as I am allowed to share I will.
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by GomezAdams »

Looking forward to it. I haven't played a Pacific game since Pacific General in 1997.
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by terminator »

How much longer to wait ?

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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by NYPATRIOT »

GomezAdams wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:32 pm Looking forward to it. I haven't played a Pacific game since Pacific General in 1997.
same
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by CaptainRope1 »

I would like to see how the USA could have won Wake Island. Cause from what i have read and watch about the topet it seem kind of impossible. Also i thing that the rank of our character in the story should be a lower rank then general, maybe Colonel or Major because of the highes rank on Wake Island was Commander Winfield Cunningham and i dont think you can write off his importants of Wake Island, not only that they have about 1,800 people on the island but only about 500 where combat personnel so its going to be a stuff fight for us in the campaign. I hope you keep us on the edge of our sits in this campaign cause i feel it going to be alot harder the perveus DLC
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by adiekmann »

CaptainRope1 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:33 am I would like to see how the USA could have won Wake Island. Cause from what i have read and watch about the topet it seem kind of impossible. Also i thing that the rank of our character in the story should be a lower rank then general, maybe Colonel or Major because of the highes rank on Wake Island was Commander Winfield Cunningham and i dont think you can write off his importants of Wake Island, not only that they have about 1,800 people on the island but only about 500 where combat personnel so its going to be a stuff fight for us in the campaign. I hope you keep us on the edge of our sits in this campaign cause i feel it going to be alot harder the perveus DLC
Well, it doesn't necessarily mean you win Wake. They can play with the history here a bit. The Americans did actually repulse the initial Japanese attack and force them to reinforce and come back with stronger support forces. A relief task force was headed to Wake, but then turned around. So it isn't too far-fetched that if you hold the island, you and your men get rescued before the new Japanese force arrives.
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by CaptainRope1 »

adiekmann wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:59 am
CaptainRope1 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:33 am I would like to see how the USA could have won Wake Island. Cause from what i have read and watch about the topet it seem kind of impossible. Also i thing that the rank of our character in the story should be a lower rank then general, maybe Colonel or Major because of the highes rank on Wake Island was Commander Winfield Cunningham and i dont think you can write off his importants of Wake Island, not only that they have about 1,800 people on the island but only about 500 where combat personnel so its going to be a stuff fight for us in the campaign. I hope you keep us on the edge of our sits in this campaign cause i feel it going to be alot harder the perveus DLC
Well, it doesn't necessarily mean you win Wake. They can play with the history here a bit. The Americans did actually repulse the initial Japanese attack and force them to reinforce and come back with stronger support forces. A relief task force was headed to Wake, but then turned around. So it isn't too far-fetched that if you hold the island, you and your men get rescued before the new Japanese force arrives.

that true i do hope there a story moment where you the character try to covens the commander of Wake Island to keep fighting
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by CaptainRope1 »

CaptainRope1 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:04 am
adiekmann wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:59 am
CaptainRope1 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:33 am I would like to see how the USA could have won Wake Island. Cause from what i have read and watch about the topet it seem kind of impossible. Also i thing that the rank of our character in the story should be a lower rank then general, maybe Colonel or Major because of the highes rank on Wake Island was Commander Winfield Cunningham and i dont think you can write off his importants of Wake Island, not only that they have about 1,800 people on the island but only about 500 where combat personnel so its going to be a stuff fight for us in the campaign. I hope you keep us on the edge of our sits in this campaign cause i feel it going to be alot harder the perveus DLC
Well, it doesn't necessarily mean you win Wake. They can play with the history here a bit. The Americans did actually repulse the initial Japanese attack and force them to reinforce and come back with stronger support forces. A relief task force was headed to Wake, but then turned around. So it isn't too far-fetched that if you hold the island, you and your men get rescued before the new Japanese force arrives.

that true i do hope there a story moment where you the character try to covens the commander of Wake Island to keep fighting
Also i do feel the player character should be a lower rank in the story and we rise in rank over the mission this way we start with little units at the start and grow more powerful as the war goes on
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by GomezAdams »

CaptainRope1 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:33 am I would like to see how the USA could have won Wake Island. Cause from what i have read and watch about the topet it seem kind of impossible.
It was impossible. Wake was, in effect, abandoned. They KNEW they were going to lose. You have to remember, that battle started essentially the day after Pearl Harbor. Our navy was decimated. We didn't want to risk hurling what we had left into a battle we were already outmanned in.

Wake already had enough forces to be a delaying tactic. They wanted Japan to have to pay a price for it, not just give it to them. But from the moment it started we were really in no position to fight that battle off.

Frankly, it's amazing they held on as long as they did.
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by Retributarr »

Critical Pacific Decisions:

Why was the battle of Guadalcanal so important?
https://colors-newyork.com/why-was-the- ... Australia.

The World War II Battle of Guadalcanal was the first major offensive and a decisive victory for the Allies in the Pacific theater. Strategically, possession of a Guadalcanal air base was important to control of the sea lines of communication between the United States and Australia.

It allowed the Japanese to seize the East Indies... and forced the allies to retreat from New Guinea.
It... [ Guadalcanal] was the first Allied victory in their island-hopping strategy.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the significance of Guadalcanal?
https://guadalcanal.weebly.com/significance.html


Although the naval battles of Midway and Coral Sea have been described as the turning points, in the Pacific War, Guadalcanal was where the Japanese war machine was finally halted.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why was Guadalcanal strategically important?
https://janetpanic.com/why-was-guadalca ... important/

From the victory at Guadalcanal, the Allies were then able to launch the Central Pacific drive and subsequent offensive operations against which the Japanese could only defend with fewer and fewer naval, aerial, and army assets. Guadalcanal, not Midway, probably turned the tide irreversibly for the Allies in the Pacific.
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Japanese debate Invasion of Australia
https://www.pacificwar.org.au/battaust/ ... nvade.html

THE JAPANESE PLANNED TO COMPEL AUSTRALIA'S SURRENDER IN 1942
Image

The Chief of Japan's Navy General Staff, Admiral Osami Nagano, wanted Japan to invade northern Australia in early 1942 and then cut Australia's lifeline to the United States.

Operation FS: The Japanese plan to isolate Australia and compel its surrender to Japan
Image

At the beginning of the Pacific War, the Imperial Japanese Navy had operational responsibility for the Pacific Ocean area, including Australia and its island territories. To counter the perceived threat from Australia as an American ally, the admirals of Japan's Navy General Staff and Navy Ministry wanted to invade key areas of the northern Australian mainland in early 1942 to isolate Australia from American and British aid. To invade Australia, the Japanese Navy would require troops from the Japanese Army.

However, when the Japanese Navy requested troops for an invasion of Australia at a meeting of the Army and Navy Sections of Japan's Imperial General Headquarters on 4 March 1942, the generals refused. They had a different but equally sinister plan for bringing Australia under Japanese control. The Japanese generals did not see a need to commit massive troop and logistical resources to the conquest of the Australian mainland in the early months of 1942. The easy capture of Rabaul on 23 January 1942 and the first bombings of Darwin on 19 February 1942 had convinced the Japanese Army that Australia had little with which to defend itself from invasion. It was the sheer size of Australia that the generals saw as an immediate problem. The generals felt that their army resources had already been heavily overextended by Japan's rapid and massive territorial conquests, and that the Imperial Army needed time to consolidate its territorial gains.The Japanese Army was confident that Australia could be pressured into surrender to Japan by isolating it completely from the United States as part of an intensified blockade, and by applying intense psychological pressure. The Japanese plan to sever Australia's lifeline to the United States was given the code reference "Operation FS" (also known as "FS Operation").

By 7 March 1942, the Japanese Navy and Army had agreed that severing Australia's lifeline to the United States (Operation FS) and pressuring Australia into submission to Japan were more important objectives than the limited invasion of Australia's northern coast that the Navy had earlier proposed. At the Imperial General Headquarters Liaison Conference on 7 March 1942, the Navy General Staff and Navy Ministry agreed to their limited invasion proposal being deferred in favour of the Army plan to sever Australia's lifeline to the United States and then pressure Australia's into total surrender to Japan. It is important to note that the Japanese generals did not rule out their support for an invasion by force if Australia did not surrender as they expected when the Japanese noose was tightened.

On 15 March 1942, with Emperor Hirohito's approval, Japan's military high command formally resolved to extend Japan's southern defensive perimeter from Port Moresby in the Australian Territory of Papua to Fiji and Samoa in the South Pacific for the purpose of isolating Australia from the United States. "Operation FS" was to be carried out as a matter of high strategic priority under the overall direction of Vice Admiral Shigeyoshi Inoue at Rabaul. Once completely isolated from the United States, the Japanese military leaders believed that Australia could be pressured into surrender to Japan by blockade and intense psychological pressures, including an intensified military onslaught against cities on the Australian mainland.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Debate between the Army and Navy
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_ ... rld_War_II

Japan's success in the early months of the Pacific War led elements of the Imperial Japanese Navy to propose invading Australia. In December 1941 the Navy proposed including an invasion of Northern Australia as one of Japan's "stage two" war objectives after South-East Asia was conquered.
Image Southeast Asia

This proposal was most strongly pushed by Captain Sadatoshi Tomioka, the head of the Navy General Staff's Planning section, on the grounds that the United States was likely to use Australia as a base to launch a counter-offensive in the South-West Pacific.
Image
Oceania

The Navy headquarters argued that this invasion could be carried out by a small landing force as this area of Australia was lightly defended and isolated from Australia's main population centres.[5] There was not universal support for this proposal within the Navy, however, and...
Image
Isoroku Yamamoto, the commander of the Combined Fleet, consistently opposed it.

The Japanese Army opposed the Navy's proposal as being impractical. The Army's focus was on defending the perimeter of Japan's conquests, and it believed that invading Australia would over-extend these defence lines. Moreover, the Army was not willing to release the large number of troops it calculated were needed for such an operation from the Kwantung Army in Manchuria as it both feared that the Soviet Union would enter the Pacific War and wanted to preserve an option for Japan to invade Siberia.[7]

Prime Minister Hideki Tojo also consistently opposed invading Australia. Instead, Tojo favoured a policy of forcing Australia to submit by cutting its lines of communication with the US.[8] In his last interview before being executed for war crimes Tojo stated.
Hideki Tōjō
東條 英機

Image
We never had enough troops to [invade Australia]. We had already far out-stretched our lines of communication. We did not have the armed strength or the supply facilities to mount such a terrific extension of our already over-strained and too thinly spread forces. We expected to occupy all New Guinea, to maintain Rabaul as a holding base, and to raid Northern Australia by air. But actual physical invasion—no, at no time.
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by CaptainRope1 »

GomezAdams wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:36 pm
CaptainRope1 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:33 am I would like to see how the USA could have won Wake Island. Cause from what i have read and watch about the topet it seem kind of impossible.
It was impossible. Wake was, in effect, abandoned. They KNEW they were going to lose. You have to remember, that battle started essentially the day after Pearl Harbor. Our navy was decimated. We didn't want to risk hurling what we had left into a battle we were already outmanned in.

Wake already had enough forces to be a delaying tactic. They wanted Japan to have to pay a price for it, not just give it to them. But from the moment it started we were really in no position to fight that battle off.

Frankly, it's amazing they held on as long as they did.
True but there was a US relfieve force coming to help to thought and there could of been a way for the US force on the Island to hold out longer then they did they were on the defense and 800 Japanese died in the battle and full third of there force and for the American they lost about 150 personnel so far for the island and most of those were civilian contractors I think what lose them the battle was them being broken up in to three shipert pokens.
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by adiekmann »

CaptainRope1 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:56 pm
GomezAdams wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:36 pm
CaptainRope1 wrote: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:33 am I would like to see how the USA could have won Wake Island. Cause from what i have read and watch about the topet it seem kind of impossible.
It was impossible. Wake was, in effect, abandoned. They KNEW they were going to lose. You have to remember, that battle started essentially the day after Pearl Harbor. Our navy was decimated. We didn't want to risk hurling what we had left into a battle we were already outmanned in.

Wake already had enough forces to be a delaying tactic. They wanted Japan to have to pay a price for it, not just give it to them. But from the moment it started we were really in no position to fight that battle off.

Frankly, it's amazing they held on as long as they did.
True but there was a US relfieve force coming to help to thought and there could of been a way for the US force on the Island to hold out longer then they did they were on the defense and 800 Japanese died in the battle and full third of there force and for the American they lost about 150 personnel so far for the island and most of those were civilian contractors I think what lose them the battle was them being broken up in to three shipert pokens.
I was thinking in terms of the game's narrative. As things happened for real, all the defenders were lost (killed or POW). So how can you build a core from this scenario to the next if you follow history exactly? You can't without changing some things and that's always been true to some degree or another since the original Panzer General. What I meant by my previous post is that it isn't a big stretch to say that if you defeated the initial invasion attempt, the relief force could come and rescue you, i.e. evacuate your troops (core). That way you could have gained some experience and continue.

What to do about those Filipino scenarios, though? That requires a bit more fiction for your core to survive. :shock:
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by CaptainRope1 »

adiekmann wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:32 am
CaptainRope1 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:56 pm
GomezAdams wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:36 pm

It was impossible. Wake was, in effect, abandoned. They KNEW they were going to lose. You have to remember, that battle started essentially the day after Pearl Harbor. Our navy was decimated. We didn't want to risk hurling what we had left into a battle we were already outmanned in.

Wake already had enough forces to be a delaying tactic. They wanted Japan to have to pay a price for it, not just give it to them. But from the moment it started we were really in no position to fight that battle off.

Frankly, it's amazing they held on as long as they did.
True but there was a US relfieve force coming to help to thought and there could of been a way for the US force on the Island to hold out longer then they did they were on the defense and 800 Japanese died in the battle and full third of there force and for the American they lost about 150 personnel so far for the island and most of those were civilian contractors I think what lose them the battle was them being broken up in to three shipert pokens.
I was thinking in terms of the game's narrative. As things happened for real, all the defenders were lost (killed or POW). So how can you build a core from this scenario to the next if you follow history exactly? You can't without changing some things and that's always been true to some degree or another since the original Panzer General. What I meant by my previous post is that it isn't a big stretch to say that if you defeated the initial invasion attempt, the relief force could come and rescue you, i.e. evacuate your troops (core). That way you could have gained some experience and continue.

What to do about those Filipino scenarios, though? That requires a bit more fiction for your core to survive. :shock:
the Filipino well that will be tuff to said there was a chose that Mac Author made where he could take all of the lockat food to feed his men but he desited not to because it would piss off the Filipino but that was a unknown but they did have a plan to hold out like Wake until they get reenforced from the US and it would have work if Mac Aruther follow the plan from the started
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by adiekmann »

CaptainRope1 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:58 am
adiekmann wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:32 am
CaptainRope1 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:56 pm

True but there was a US relfieve force coming to help to thought and there could of been a way for the US force on the Island to hold out longer then they did they were on the defense and 800 Japanese died in the battle and full third of there force and for the American they lost about 150 personnel so far for the island and most of those were civilian contractors I think what lose them the battle was them being broken up in to three shipert pokens.
I was thinking in terms of the game's narrative. As things happened for real, all the defenders were lost (killed or POW). So how can you build a core from this scenario to the next if you follow history exactly? You can't without changing some things and that's always been true to some degree or another since the original Panzer General. What I meant by my previous post is that it isn't a big stretch to say that if you defeated the initial invasion attempt, the relief force could come and rescue you, i.e. evacuate your troops (core). That way you could have gained some experience and continue.

What to do about those Filipino scenarios, though? That requires a bit more fiction for your core to survive. :shock:
the Filipino well that will be tuff to said there was a chose that Mac Author made where he could take all of the lockat food to feed his men but he desited not to because it would piss off the Filipino but that was a unknown but they did have a plan to hold out like Wake until they get reenforced from the US and it would have work if Mac Aruther follow the plan from the started
One possibility is that your only core units are air and naval early in the DLC. They could be evacuated or withdrawn easily enough from all of these other early scenarios without requiring such a long exaggeration of the truth (history) to explain how your ground core units survived from one battle to the next.
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by CaptainRope1 »

adiekmann wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 2:40 am
CaptainRope1 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:58 am
adiekmann wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:32 am

I was thinking in terms of the game's narrative. As things happened for real, all the defenders were lost (killed or POW). So how can you build a core from this scenario to the next if you follow history exactly? You can't without changing some things and that's always been true to some degree or another since the original Panzer General. What I meant by my previous post is that it isn't a big stretch to say that if you defeated the initial invasion attempt, the relief force could come and rescue you, i.e. evacuate your troops (core). That way you could have gained some experience and continue.

What to do about those Filipino scenarios, though? That requires a bit more fiction for your core to survive. :shock:
the Filipino well that will be tuff to said there was a chose that Mac Author made where he could take all of the lockat food to feed his men but he desited not to because it would piss off the Filipino but that was a unknown but they did have a plan to hold out like Wake until they get reenforced from the US and it would have work if Mac Aruther follow the plan from the started
One possibility is that your only core units are air and naval early in the DLC. They could be evacuated or withdrawn easily enough from all of these other early scenarios without requiring such a long exaggeration of the truth (history) to explain how your ground core units survived from one battle to the next.
That sounds about true because that mostly what the US would have down in reality but the other thing to was that when the Japanese did most of the attack they where outnumber in almost all of there battle in one example is the Fall of Singapore if the British forces knew how many Japanese troops where attacking them and where tired and low on ammo they the British would of have rally and beaten them. Like most of there wins in there campaigns for the Pacific Ocean they where luck and most of the commanders at the time ether underestmat them or where trying to find out what to do or where surprise of the attacks you can look up some of this stuff on youtube channel World War 2 in real time by Indy Nidel it week by week he did not said the japanese got luck part that by my view of the events.
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by GomezAdams »

adiekmann wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:32 am True but there was a US relfieve force coming to help to thought and there could of been a way for the US force on the Island to hold out longer then they did they were on the defense and 800 Japanese died in the battle and full third of there force and for the American they lost about 150 personnel so far for the island and most of those were civilian contractors I think what lose them the battle was them being broken up in to three shipert pokens.
The relief force would in all likelihood have been obliterated before it ever landed. There's a reason they were called back.

In any invasion against a fixed position, especially amphibious, it takes roughly a 3 to 1 to 5 to 1 numerical superiority to succeed. That's why Japan paid such a heavy price at Wake and we paid that same price pretty much everywhere else including Normandy.
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by CaptainRope1 »

GomezAdams wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:50 pm
adiekmann wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:32 am True but there was a US relfieve force coming to help to thought and there could of been a way for the US force on the Island to hold out longer then they did they were on the defense and 800 Japanese died in the battle and full third of there force and for the American they lost about 150 personnel so far for the island and most of those were civilian contractors I think what lose them the battle was them being broken up in to three shipert pokens.
The relief force would in all likelihood have been obliterated before it ever landed. There's a reason they were called back.

In any invasion against a fixed position, especially amphibious, it takes roughly a 3 to 1 to 5 to 1 numerical superiority to succeed. That's why Japan paid such a heavy price at Wake and we paid that same price pretty much everywhere else including Normandy.
true but that just died they never menction wounded and i dont think the relived force would of been destory they where two weeks away before they found out about the second attack
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by Schneides42 »

CaptainRope1 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:30 am That sounds about true because that mostly what the US would have down in reality but the other thing to was that when the Japanese did most of the attack they where outnumber in almost all of there battle in one example is the Fall of Singapore if the British forces knew how many Japanese troops where attacking them and where tired and low on ammo they the British would of have rally and beaten them. Like most of there wins in there campaigns for the Pacific Ocean they where luck and most of the commanders at the time ether underestmat them or where trying to find out what to do or where surprise of the attacks you can look up some of this stuff on youtube channel World War 2 in real time by Indy Nidel it week by week he did not said the japanese got luck part that by my view of the events.
The issue with the alternative history of the British and Commonwealth troops rallying and defending Singapore against tired and low on ammo troops is the question of who would have been reinforced first? There were few additional troops in Australia and the supply lines from even India would have taken longer to get there than from Japanese bases. Singapore was never the impregnable fortress that British propaganda claimed it to be.
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by GomezAdams »

Schneides42 wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 1:06 am Singapore was never the impregnable fortress that British propaganda claimed it to be.
+1
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Re: Panzer Corps goes Pacific

Post by CaptainRope1 »

Schneides42 wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 1:06 am
CaptainRope1 wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 3:30 am That sounds about true because that mostly what the US would have down in reality but the other thing to was that when the Japanese did most of the attack they where outnumber in almost all of there battle in one example is the Fall of Singapore if the British forces knew how many Japanese troops where attacking them and where tired and low on ammo they the British would of have rally and beaten them. Like most of there wins in there campaigns for the Pacific Ocean they where luck and most of the commanders at the time ether underestmat them or where trying to find out what to do or where surprise of the attacks you can look up some of this stuff on youtube channel World War 2 in real time by Indy Nidel it week by week he did not said the japanese got luck part that by my view of the events.
The issue with the alternative history of the British and Commonwealth troops rallying and defending Singapore against tired and low on ammo troops is the question of who would have been reinforced first? There were few additional troops in Australia and the supply lines from even India would have taken longer to get there than from Japanese bases. Singapore was never the impregnable fortress that British propaganda claimed it to be.
I believe that Singapore was not a impregnable fortress everything most fall to time but one of the key moments in the battle of Singapore was when the water resuver were take by the Japanese if the british where to lauch a counter attack then they would have hold out longer then the japanese have want which would have force a retrate cause they where unable to countuie the attack cause of low supply and out pesty the supply convoles.
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