Anti Air Veteran - is it WAD?

[Granatenwerfer100]

Anti Air Veteran - is it WAD (=working as designed)?

When selecting Anti Air Veteran all my AA Guns should infict damage in strenght to aircrafts, only.
Sometimes they don't. Why? Is it WAD?
Please look at the screenshot below. You see AO Spain, Road to La Coruna, civil war.

[VirgilInTheSKY]

First, you have lost more than half strength yourself, so the number of shots will be halved.
Second, the weather is cloudy, so weapon accurancy will drop another 50%.
AA Veteran just removes the effect from Suppressing Fire, suppress would still be dealt if the shot failed to penetrate and deal real damage.

[Granatenwerfer100]

@VirgilInTheSKY
Your explanation does not make sense to me.
Again another screenshot below.

screenshot_2021.09.17-18.51.57.jpg (924.28 KiB) Viewed 1348 times

[adiekmann]

@VirgilInTheSKY
Your explanation does not make sense to me.
Again another screenshot below.
screenshot_2021.09.17-18.51.57.jpg

What he told you is correct. I would add, especially with regard to this screenshot, your AA unit is at low or 0 experience. Just because you have AA Veteran doesn't mean all of your AA units will act like 5-star elite veterans! It turns what normally would be suppression into kills. But if your AA unit is low in experience, it would not inflict much suppression either, and therefore with AA Veteran not many kills as well.

[VirgilInTheSKY]

@VirgilInTheSKY
Your explanation does not make sense to me.
Again another screenshot below.
screenshot_2021.09.17-18.51.57.jpg

This one is exactly what AA Veteran does, you get normal kills with a healthy AA unit and clear weather. Fewer shots means fewer dice rolled, and as a result there is a higher chance that the result can different much more from the expected value, thus your first screenshot.

[FunPolice749]

To my understanding it works like this:
When a unit attacks each point of strength rolls a 100 sided die. The exact roll needed to deal damage varies on a lot of factors but in general the higher the number the more likely you are to deal damage.
Suppressing Fire is a trait that dramatically increases the roll needed to deal damage. Let's say that normal it takes a roll of 50 or higher to deal actual damage normally (anything between 30-49 is suppression and anything lower than 30 is a miss). Suppressing Fire essentially makes it like at minimum a roll of 80 to deal damage (anything between 31-79 is suppression and anything below the 30 is still a miss).
It's completely possible that even with AA Veteran it's possible to roll a suppression (the die was a 30-49 if we go by the first example). You overall will deal more damage but it doesn't mean all suppression will become damage.

[Granatenwerfer100]

@VirgilInTheSKY
Your explanation does not make sense to me.
Again another screenshot below.
screenshot_2021.09.17-18.51.57.jpg

What he told you is correct. I would add, especially with regard to this screenshot, your AA unit is at low or 0 experience. Just because you have AA Veteran doesn't mean all of your AA units will act like 5-star elite veterans! It turns what normally would be suppression into kills. But if your AA unit is low in experience, it would not inflict much suppression either, and therefore with AA Veteran not many kills as well.

Let me quote the information regarding Anti-Air Veteran from the game again (that is the subject that is at stake here!):

Anti-Air units inflict outright kills instead of suppresision.

That means for me there is no suppression any more, but instead losses in strength. Of course I don't expect a behaviour like a 5-star elite veteran from my AA Gun. Units with lower experience obtain less kills than more experienced units do. But both have in common that with this game-attitude there is no longer any suppression. If that game-attitude had meant there was less suppression, I would have understood the result with one suppression. But unfortunately I don't understand the result as it is displayed in my two screenshots, because I still see suppression.

[VirgilInTheSKY]

@VirgilInTheSKY
Your explanation does not make sense to me.
Again another screenshot below.
screenshot_2021.09.17-18.51.57.jpg

What he told you is correct. I would add, especially with regard to this screenshot, your AA unit is at low or 0 experience. Just because you have AA Veteran doesn't mean all of your AA units will act like 5-star elite veterans! It turns what normally would be suppression into kills. But if your AA unit is low in experience, it would not inflict much suppression either, and therefore with AA Veteran not many kills as well.

Let me quote the information regarding Anti-Air Veteran from the game again (that is the subject that is at stake here!):

Anti-Air units inflict outright kills instead of suppresision.

That means for me there is no suppression any more, but instead losses in strength. Of course I don't expect a behaviour like a 5-star elite veteran from my AA Gun. Units with lower experience obtain less kills than more experienced units do. But both have in common that with this game-attitude there is no longer any suppression. If that game-attitude had meant there was less suppression, I would have understood the result with one suppression. But unfortunately I don't understand the result as it is displayed in my two screenshots, because I still see suppression.

That one suppression is from a shot not penetrated. A roll of attack has 3 kind of results: Kill if penetrated, suppression if hit but not penetrated, no damage if not hit. AA Veteran cancels Suppressing Fire (largely increase suppression rate and reduce kill rate) and apply normal damage calculation. Have you saw your tanks without Suppressing Fire doing suppression? This is the same result if you shoot a ground target with a tank. A shot failed would turn into suppression, this has nothing to do with your kill/suppression/no damage rate, which is exactly what Suppressing Fire and AA Veteran modifies.

Or let's talk deeper into the system itself, when randomness is 0%, if Attack > Defence + 8, an attack would always penetrate (cause a kill), if Attack + 8 < Denfence, an attack would always fail to penetrate (no damage), and if Attack + 8 > Defence and Attack < Defence + 8, Attack would deal Kill/Suppression in a rate calculated. Suppressing Fire increases the suppression part, AA Veteran cancels this increase and set it back to normal rate. 2cm FlaK 30 has 6 Air Attack and shoot at I-15's 0 Close Defence, the difference is below 8, so you will have a chance that a shot failed to cause kill and deal suppression. And your screenshots are the one that have such a situation.

[adiekmann]

It would be perhaps a good idea for Granatenwerfer100 to view the combat log after the engagement. Then study it to see all of the things that are going on. Probably good advice for a lot of people who may be reading this thread to help better understand all the peculiarities of combat mechanics in the game.

[sakura006]

You need to check the combat log and study the game mechanics.
Any normal units without indirect fire still have a suppression rate up to 20% unless your attack defense difference is larger than 12. The air attack of your AA is about 8, so your predicted kill chance should be 80%, and your suppression rate should be 20%. This is part of the core game mechanics. Anti air veteran simply removes the indirect fire trait, but it doesn't change the damage calculation. The discerption is a bit misleading. But it works as intended.