When will the 6. Army return?

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Wagner0445
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When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Wagner0445 »

When do you guys think will we see the impact of us saving the 6. Army in Stalingrad in AO 1942?

I think they will appear in Kursk making it possible to encircle the Soviet armies there.

Would be interested to hear your ideas/theories on that.
Tassadar
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Tassadar »

My best guess is some more elite heroes or special infantry units of the Azul Infantry sort. There indeed might also be some mission specific bonuses like the one you suggested, but I doubt it will be anything impacting the campaign paths.

The DLC come out one after another in the course of multiple months. If a player ended up in a situation where the outcome of a specific path would so greatly differ after such time it could be a bit frustrating, as it would require replaying quite a lot of content. Thus any major impact on campaign tree will likely remain limited to the specific DLC year a it was so far. Galland's retirement or lack of it having zero impact on Cerberus is I think the best example showing this approach that prioritizes player convenience over too much long term impact and frankly I think I prefer it this way as I can always dismiss heroes, disband units and choose "worse" historical paths if I want.
Snake97644
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Snake97644 »

While I agree that avoiding locking the player into set paths made sense early on, but now that AO 43 is confirmed to have two paths I would like to see mission objectives starting to have long lasting repercussion, such as saving 6th Army. In fact the the devs could bring up things like Sealion and Cerberus in the alternate history path, and now make them now have value since the alternative line will deviate from the historical. The historical path can continue to ignore them, but in the alternate line it could have some significance, after all the losses the player inflicts to the Royal Navy and Air Force in these fictitious scenarios are serious; 40+ ships sunk and a whole lot of dead air crews, if the player did all bonus scenarios.
I would enjoy seeing these events being acknowledged in the alternate line, especially since if the player chose to take the Operation Blut line at the end of AO42, they probably played all these extra scenarios anyway. Resurrecting these past alternative scenarios will also allow for more interesting story telling in the final year of the AO line. While I expect AO43 will likely be mostly the same regardless of which line one took in AO42, it can set the stage for things in '44-'45.
Bee1976
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Bee1976 »

Snake97644 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:17 am but now that AO 43 is confirmed to have two paths
This is confirmed ?
Snake97644
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Snake97644 »

Bee1976 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:03 pm
Snake97644 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:17 am but now that AO 43 is confirmed to have two paths
This is confirmed ?
Yes, I suppose confirmed is too strong a word, but given the two paths at the end of '42, it seems at some point in AO 43 there will be divergent paths. My guess however is that it would not take place until Kursk, perhaps as the op said you would have the additional troops to complete the encirclement and blunt Kutuzov and Rumantsyev.
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Bee1976 »

Ah ok thx dude. I really hope we will get 2 DLCs for 43+, 1 ahistorical and 1 historical for each year of the war.

But im afraid, we will recieve something like that fictional "sea lion" or like Tassadar said 1 special unit or 2.
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Snake97644 »

Bee1976 wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:13 pm Ah ok thx dude. I really hope we will get 2 DLCs for 43+, 1 ahistorical and 1 historical for each year of the war.

But im afraid, we will recieve something like that fictional "sea lion" or like Tassadar said 1 special unit or 2.
Yeah I too hope for a really good ahistorical line in addition to the historical, that is why it's one of the few subjects I post on. I am hoping "squeaky wheel gets the dlc". :D
adiekmann
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by adiekmann »

I asked Kerensky several months ago in the Beta forum if he could comment on what the "alternative path" will look like. Also if AO43 will be on big DLC with both paths in it, or two separate ones. Sadly, he answered sorry but no. :cry:
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Raganr129 »

I would guess ahistorical elements of '43 branch are only really shown in 1-2 missions in the DLC, as to potentially reduce the expense of making 2 separate DLCs/campaigns. That would flow with what was speculated above that the 6th army needing rest and recovery time after the evacuation anyway, so I certainly wouldn't expect a split from the very beginning of the DLC for that reason alone.

I think that even the speculation about a route split following Kursk would be a little ambitious, once again considering the amount of alt-history needed to be written (and thus scenarios to be built), as that battle 'only' ran from July through the end of August, and there's a lot of notable action still to go in '43 that Kerensky may want to explore. That's not even considering that at this point even with the 6th army intact the Germans are now outnumbered on the eastern front somewhat significantly, so a lot of defensive scenarios are still probably likely anyway. Maybe there will be a series of challenge tokens (1 strength soviet units like after Stalingrad) to collect over several defensive scenarios (3rd and 4th battle of Kharkov, Smolensk, Kiev, etc) to show you successfully bleeding down the Soviets, perhaps needing a certain minimum number of them in order to fully turn the tide in '44 or even '45... who knows, but that's my sneaky guess.

A split that I think might definitely be happening in '43 is a eastern vs western front split, similar to what Panzer Corps 1 had, but this wouldn't really be in line with how that front split with those DLCs were released, assuming the release dates for those DLCs are accurate on Steam.

That said, we already know that '43 is getting a longer break and possibly development time than any of the other DLCs, so... maybe we will get more significant amounts of alt-history than I think?
Wagner0445
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Wagner0445 »

Well, this makes me hopeful that we get a split timeline.
It would be a shame if they don't do something big here cause its a pretty important change in the power relations

Image
Snake97644
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Snake97644 »

Wagner0445 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:49 pm Well, this makes me hopeful that we get a split timeline.
It would be a shame if they don't do something big here cause its a pretty important change in the power relations

Image
Thanks for posting that. :D
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by wecker »

Hi folks,

here is my 50 cents on the matter.

If I am correcct (I didn`t play AO42 until the end - I am stuck in Stalingrad :oops: ) we will have two outcomes at the end of AO42.

Does this mean that you will also get two entry points in the AO43? A historical and an ahistorical?

Or is it hopefully two DLCs - one ahistorical and the other one historical.

I mean we could see the typical historical Battle of Charlow and then Kursk. If you loose Kursk you can choose between Salerno against the Allies (therefore the first Pacific DLC is an american DLC) or stay in Russia and play defensive scenarios till the winter. So you could get also two endings in AO43.

You could then continue with AO44 either in Italy or Normandy or would get an eastern 44 DLC culminating in the defeat of Army Group Center (operation Bagration).

But how about the ahistorical path?

I am really curious...
adiekmann
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by adiekmann »

wecker wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:06 pm
Does this mean that you will also get two entry points in the AO43? A historical and an ahistorical?

Or is it hopefully two DLCs - one ahistorical and the other one historical.

I am really curious...
The developers haven't really giving us much of a clue either way, so all we really have is speculation at this point. I think some of us, me included, assumed that it would mean a totally ahistorical pathway. That was before AO42 was even released. I envisioned something like you winning Stalingrad and moving on. Well, you don't so what then???

Others have made some interesting suggestions that maybe the ahistorical path wouldn't be so radical as Nazi Germany winning the war. Instead rewarded with unique heroes? Fight future battles with additional slots/troops? I really don't know, but clearly from their recent comments I think it is something that isn't going to just impact AO43, but the rest of the AO series as well.

As far as splitting off into other theaters of war, also unknown. Just because they stuck to the Eastern Front in PC1 doesn't mean they are obligated to do so here. I think that's what they're working on and deciding long range, and for that I welcome giving them additional time to do a good job.
Wagner0445
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Wagner0445 »

wecker wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:06 pm Hi folks,

here is my 50 cents on the matter.

If I am correcct (I didn`t play AO42 until the end - I am stuck in Stalingrad :oops: ) we will have two outcomes at the end of AO42.

Does this mean that you will also get two entry points in the AO43? A historical and an ahistorical?

Or is it hopefully two DLCs - one ahistorical and the other one historical.

I mean we could see the typical historical Battle of Charlow and then Kursk. If you loose Kursk you can choose between Salerno against the Allies (therefore the first Pacific DLC is an american DLC) or stay in Russia and play defensive scenarios till the winter. So you could get also two endings in AO43.

You could then continue with AO44 either in Italy or Normandy or would get an eastern 44 DLC culminating in the defeat of Army Group Center (operation Bagration).

But how about the ahistorical path?

I am really curious...
I don't want to spoil you so ignore this if you don't want to know how the ahistorical path in 1942 ends.

-------Spoiler-------

At the end, you manage to break the 6. Army out od Stalingrad and Wagner tells you that the men of the 6.Army will have to rest and be refitted in Germany.

-------Spoiler End--------


So it is most likely that the starting battles of 1943 won't change much. The split will happen later in the war if at all. Which I find quite likely after their post after the Home of Wargaming Event.
Wagner0445
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Wagner0445 »

Snake97644 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 9:56 pm
Wagner0445 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:49 pm Well, this makes me hopeful that we get a split timeline.
It would be a shame if they don't do something big here cause its a pretty important change in the power relations

Image
Thanks for posting that. :D
No problem
Wagner0445
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Wagner0445 »

adiekmann wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:50 am As far as splitting off into other theaters of war, also unknown. Just because they stuck to the Eastern Front in PC1 doesn't mean they are obligated to do so here. I think that's what they're working on and deciding long range, and for that I welcome giving them additional time to do a good job.
I think they will split off at some point into West and East. On quite a few occasions they called the DLCs after the 1940 DLC Axis operations (Number) East.
Wagner0445
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Wagner0445 »

In this Thread, Patrick Ward also speaks about a split in Timeline.

viewtopic.php?f=464&t=107832
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by Wolfenguard »

mhh i think there will be some interessting Options for the 43 dlc,
first of all, how much of the mechanics from the new Pacific Dlc will be used in the futur and/or the old DLC´s
maybe we will see some special naval mission and or changes in the old mission, something like change in the short sealion mission so you can safe the hipper, bismark and Graf zeppelin so you get a special mission where you escord the bismark and so on with the surviving ships and the 3 Ships from the air support mission from 42 dlc trough the nordsee (if you lose some of the ships, you have only the surviving ships for this missions aso.)

For the Campaign tree i think there will be a split in the Tree, which is only accesable if you safe the 6. Army. You start in the ost with x scenarios then you get the message, the surviving Part of the 6. Army is refitted and back for some Action. Rommel was send to Afrika and need some help. We know that your army group is needed in the east but you impressed Rommel in France so he wants your help. With the 6. Army refitted you have the choice to help Rommel and send the 6. Army
back to the east (Change to the Afrika missions) or stay at the east Front and send the 6. Army to Afrika (normal mission tree). If you dont safe the 6. Army you dont get the Afrika Option and you only get the information that rommel wanted your help in Afrika but we can´t send you, the surviving rest of the 6. Army is not strong enough to replace you, so we send them to Afrika.

After you finished the Afrika Part you get back to the east Front (standart Tree) to finish the last x missions to the normal Ending 43 Ending. (with some Coins aso to get acces to new mission in the 44 addon)
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by DefiantXYX »

I always hate if you have to decide wether you play west or east. Sure, it makes sense that a general can only fight on one battlefield, but hey, it's a game.
Because of that mission ceberus, we you have to safe the german battleships on the western front is definately on of my favorite mission.
There could a point, when you can decide if you want to split up your army and play on both fronts. Let's say after the war on tha balkans and you can your main army to russia but also a small group to africa, so you can play both pathes.
adiekmann
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Re: When will the 6. Army return?

Post by adiekmann »

I believe that the Western campaigns will remain separate DLCs like they were in PC1. I think you can do a theater better when a DLC focuses on just one area, rather than split up all over the place, but that's just a guess. I also think the Africa theater will once again be its own DLC/campaign.

I posted in the "ideas for Panzer Corps 2" thread a long description of what I'd like to see the Afrika Corps campaign a while back as it is my favorite area of operations, both in game and real. You can see it here: viewtopic.php?f=464&t=76834&start=340

One of the things I'd like to see them do is extend the historical path where the Axis (or more specifically your core) evacuates Tunisia to Sicily rather than fight to a surrender. That way your core and campaign can then continue in the Italian theater. I suppose it could be optional and you could also fight in Italy without continuing the African campaign first.
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