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Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:28 am
by Kasperlzhang
In PeG, reconnaissance is not white or black, I don’t see you or I see all of you. It represents several degrees of intelligence availability.

When an enemy units is at the limit of your spot range, the player (hopefully the AI as well) will barely know that there is enemy presence there, but have no idea about anything else e.g. unit type, stats, strength, entrench, etc., they are all “?”. You can order an artillery or air strike on it, but expect minimal effects at best since you don’t even know the enemy’s exact location ( a hex can be really large ).

When you get closer, or the weather gets better, you start to make out gradually whether it’s tanks or infantry or artillery, closer still you can tell what type their tanks are, light infantry or combat engineers, their strength and maybe the presence of a hero. And the expected results when you attack it get better at the same time.

Oh and different unit types have different silhouette, making them less or more difficult to be spotted. I believe the UN side gets stealth tanks in late game. And difficult terrains like forests and mountains makes hiding easier.

I believe it’s not a over complicated system, and it’s much more flexible and fun, and it can make recons much more relevant. Because if you send your tigers alone to attack an enemy, the poor sight of them may mean that you don’t know exactly what you are attacking even when you are right next to them, which means it’s entirely possible that you ran head into a battery of well camouflaged and entrenched AT guns.

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:39 am
by Retributarr
Great Stuff!/Major Wunderbar!!!:

Your's is the 'Best-Solution' yet that I have read. I like it a lot and hope that it is not too ambitious or complicated to implement into the Game.

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:48 am
by naturesheva
Cannot agree any more.
Possible factors will affect degree of reconnaissance:
Terrain, weather, time (day/night), distance, height, status (March/move/defence/ambush...), type of unit/equipment, type of unit of opposite party, land/air/naval, etc.

Current factors used in PzC: distance

Personally I prefer a more complicated system to make it closer to reality. However, make it simple and balanced is also important for majority of players.

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:22 am
by Kasperlzhang
naturesheva wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:48 am
Cannot agree any more.
Possible factors will affect degree of reconnaissance:
Terrain, weather, time (day/night), distance, height, status (March/move/defence/ambush...), type of unit/equipment, type of unit of opposite party, land/air/naval, etc.

Current factors used in PzC: distance

Personally I prefer a more complicated system to make it closer to reality. However, make it simple and balanced is also important for majority of players.
Personally if only it’s intuitive and relatively realistic, a little more complicity won’t stop me from enjoying this game. You just command you troops according to intelligence available to you, timidly or aggressively depending on your style, and expect the unexpected, like a true general would I imagine.

Of course to players who enjoy calculating and carefully planning everything, it most possibly will become too difficult to predict, because it will be much less like chess.

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:28 am
by maguro
People's general is maybe the only PG I did not play but after reading this thread I want to go back see how that game's recon works. Reading some of the other comment on the forum, it seems like a lot of people would like to see a concept like this added.

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:33 am
by uran21
maguro wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:28 am
People's general is maybe the only PG I did not play but after reading this thread I want to go back see how that game's recon works. Reading some of the other comment on the forum, it seems like a lot of people would like to see a concept like this added.
You can check People's General here. Scroll lower there is also Manual for the game.

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:49 pm
by maguro
uran21 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:33 am
maguro wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:28 am
People's general is maybe the only PG I did not play but after reading this thread I want to go back see how that game's recon works. Reading some of the other comment on the forum, it seems like a lot of people would like to see a concept like this added.
You can check People's General here. Scroll lower there is also game Manual for the game.
Thanks for that! I will definitely check it out! :D

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:57 pm
by Rudankort
Kasperlzhang wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:28 am
I believe it’s not a over complicated system, and it’s much more flexible and fun, and it can make recons much more relevant. Because if you send your tigers alone to attack an enemy, the poor sight of them may mean that you don’t know exactly what you are attacking even when you are right next to them, which means it’s entirely possible that you ran head into a battery of well camouflaged and entrenched AT guns.
This might be nice as an option, but as a standard rule, I'm not sure most players will like it. From my experience, people usually prefer to have less unpredictability than more.

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:35 pm
by Retributarr
Rudankort wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:57 pm
Kasperlzhang wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:28 am
I believe it’s not a over complicated system, and it’s much more flexible and fun, and it can make recons much more relevant. Because if you send your tigers alone to attack an enemy, the poor sight of them may mean that you don’t know exactly what you are attacking even when you are right next to them, which means it’s entirely possible that you ran head into a battery of well camouflaged and entrenched AT guns.
This might be nice as an option, but as a standard rule, I'm not sure most players will like it. From my experience, people usually prefer to have less unpredictability than more.
I'm in "Favour" of having 'Both-Options', if it's not more trouble than it's worth!.

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:59 am
by maguro
Rudankort wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:57 pm
Kasperlzhang wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:28 am
I believe it’s not a over complicated system, and it’s much more flexible and fun, and it can make recons much more relevant. Because if you send your tigers alone to attack an enemy, the poor sight of them may mean that you don’t know exactly what you are attacking even when you are right next to them, which means it’s entirely possible that you ran head into a battery of well camouflaged and entrenched AT guns.
This might be nice as an option, but as a standard rule, I'm not sure most players will like it. From my experience, people usually prefer to have less unpredictability than more.
The size of the scenario probably has a bit to do with it. On a small map with fewer units, a more dynamic recon system is probably easier to keep track of. With a big map and lots of units, the scenario could feel a bit overwhelming with a few too many surprises. Personally, I prefer anything that helps to distinguishing the attributes of each unit class. I agree with Retributarr. Having the option is nice, so long as it's not overburdening development.

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:08 am
by Molve
The problem is that thorough reconnaissance might become mandatory. I don't think people will find that fun in general - they just want to roll up their Panzers and smash things.

There are lots of great ideas to increase verisimilitude that risks losing sight of what made Panzer General/Corps a hit in the first place: a quick and easy beer'n'pretzels WWII game where you get to play with impressive miniature Panzers that slowly become undefeatable.

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:59 pm
by GeneralRetreat
People's General was the apex of the Panzer General. It was so good that a mod allowed one to play WWII with it. It was great. :D

Re: Really liked the reconnaissance system of People’s general

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:38 am
by FOARP
maguro wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:28 am
People's general is maybe the only PG I did not play but after reading this thread I want to go back see how that game's recon works. Reading some of the other comment on the forum, it seems like a lot of people would like to see a concept like this added.
My favourite game from the later series, indeed, the best game of the original series other than the first PzG (didn't play AG, did play PacG which had terrible AI flaws, as did PzG2, as did Star General, FG was OK).