Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

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BloodCat
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Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by BloodCat » Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:59 am

Well, subj. All those I've seen are terrible at the game; that Apollo guy is especially bad at PzC, military history and commenting. Either it's just not their cup of schnapps, or the press build got shipped off without manual and tutorial.
And still, playing as awful as they do, they still manage to win scenarios... maybe the default difficulty needs some tweaks.

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by Kerensky » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:20 am

As for your title...

I don't think Slitherine is allowing general access to youtubers for the game yet.
I know there are several history youtube channels I very much enjoy, but they aren't really gaming channels.
I can only assume there is more promotional content coming between now and the fixed release date though, so I guess the only thing there really is to do is just stay tuned.

As for your body...

I have to disagree. In fact, I believe the polar opposite of what you said. The fact that someone can fumble their way through the content on default is a sign of success and triumph for the default difficulty setting. Because everyone is a new player when they start up, and it's common knowledge that everyone plays games on default settings. It's extremely rare for brand new players to crank down the difficulty or tweak settings to tailor difficulty to suit their knowledge... because how can they, they have no knowledge. They want to play a game, they hit play. They don't bury themselves into setting and options.

Now that said...

There are all kinds of advanced settings and modes I can't reveal details of yet because they are still behind BETA NDA. But I'm confident there are modes and settings that will satisfy advanced players. I've yet to see a report from any player that even comes close to finishing the most advanced scenario we have on offer.......... :wink:
Last edited by Kerensky on Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

BloodCat
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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by BloodCat » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:22 am

Kerensky wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:20 am
I don't think Slitherine is allowing general access to youtubers for the game yet.
Well just on YT I saw at least ten people playing PzC2. And at least half of them play like they have almost no experience of wargaming and knowledge of history/tactics. Really. I'm not exaggerating here.
Kerensky wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:20 am
The fact that someone can fumble their way through the content on default is a sign of success and triumph for the default difficulty setting.
So that was intended?.. Disgusting. I mean, they attack cities and forests with armor, use arty barrages after ground assault, have exactly zero recon units, don't even try to achieve air superiority or even to cover their bombers, use only elite replacements... and still win scenarios. That was the aim of balancing? PzC was an entry level wargame, but this... like creating an air-sim while making sure any kid with a keyboard can land a Hornet on a carrier.

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by Kerensky » Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:29 am

BloodCat wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:22 am
So that was intended?.. Disgusting. I mean, they attack cities and forests with armor, use arty barrages after ground assault, have exactly zero recon units, don't even try to achieve air superiority or even to cover their bombers, use only elite replacements... and still win scenarios. That was the aim of balancing? PzC was an entry level wargame, but this... like creating an air-sim while making sure any kid with a keyboard can land a Hornet on a carrier.
Do you really think it's a good idea for your main entry point of a game to be crushingly difficult? Even Darkest Dungeon took a little while before it crushed your soul as I recall. :P

It's got room for error built into it, because it's the default mode and it's also the main start point.
Obviously it's trivial for anyone who has the wealth of knowledge you just listed it. I personally can't even play it because it's just too basic.

But as soon as I start flipping some switches and tweaking things, I feel right at home in a proper difficulty setting. :)

If the default difficulty doesn't fit your experience right, there are ways to increase it dramatically, and also in ways that don't just jack up the AI to insane over-strength levels either (even though that is still my personal favorite :mrgreen: ).

The bottom line, no one is going to force you to play only on default mode, so don't worry about it. You can put all that knowledge to work on the higher, advanced, and custom difficulty modes.

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by BloodCat » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:10 am

Kerensky wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:29 am
Do you really think it's a good idea for your main entry point of a game to be crushingly difficult? Even Darkest Dungeon took a little while before it crushed your soul as I recall. :P
Nah, I'm not a diehard grognard myself. But I took PzC as a point of reference, and for me it had just the right default difficulty level. The way youtubers I mentioned play though... their Blitzkrieg would've ended at Poznan... nah, they would've stumbled on own shoelaces while remilitarizing the Rhine DMZ.
On a side note, got through DD on my first playthrough. :) Yeah, I'm that lucky sometimes.
Kerensky wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:29 am
It's got room for error built into it, because it's the default mode and it's also the main start point.
Obviously it's trivial for anyone who has the wealth of knowledge you just listed it.
It's not a room now, it's a friggin airfield! With hangars and BNC shelter! I get the overall idea, but IMO it got too far. As for wealth of knowledge -- flattering, but untrue. It's common knowledge for anyone remotely understanding WWII tactics -- and those who don't understand that don't play wargames either, I think. And the worst is, I don't want the campaign to leave me wondering if I'm that good (obviously not) or something's off with the balance.

Oh. And the main thing. It's great to see you're developing PzC2. Those GCs for PzC were amazing.

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by Kerensky » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:12 pm

I'm being corrected. Apparently Apollo was NOT playing on DEFAULT difficulty, he was playing on the lowest difficulty setting. So that explains a lot of why he was successful even with tactics that you found to be practically offensive. My mistake.

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by proline » Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:27 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:12 pm
I'm being corrected. Apparently Apollo was NOT playing on DEFAULT difficulty, he was playing on the lowest difficulty setting. So that explains a lot of why he was successful even with tactics that you found to be practically offensive. My mistake.
I'm fine with the default being pretty easy, but why would you make the public face of your game some know-nothing mashing the keyboard? Why not give someone knowledgeable the chance to demonstrate some of the new mechanics against a decent opponent? Again, what did this guy do to earn the privilege of being the only one authorized to do a play-through? Does he have a million followers? Is he a celebrity?

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by prestidigitation » Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:41 pm

Hey OP, this guy is excellent at PzC 1 and is playing well in PzC 2 at max difficulty.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 5eBIzYS5B-

He makes mistakes but they're driven more by differences between 1 and 2 and the frankly bizarre encirclement rules than anything else.

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by BloodCat » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:22 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:12 pm
I'm being corrected. Apparently Apollo was NOT playing on DEFAULT difficulty, he was playing on the lowest difficulty setting.
Yeah, I know about him, but for example
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3H5lJ ... HzY3JIuwsw
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsJCJD ... eUUiskH-9w
these two guys are playing at the default level. And it's equally painful seeing them play -- and seeing them win that way.
Kerensky wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:12 pm
So that explains a lot of why he was successful even with tactics that you found to be practically offensive.
:mrgreen: Damn. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to think about 'offensive operations' and see only one meaning. Thanks.
prestidigitation wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:41 pm
Hey OP, this guy is excellent at PzC 1 and is playing well in PzC 2 at max difficulty.
Yup, saw him. He's the only decent one currently.

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by Boulcan » Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:35 pm

can't agree more with the op. Most of the youtubers casting the game are simple bad with the game. They haven't probably even played the panzer corps even, so that can explain a lot.
Das tactic on the other hand has only just 1 episode and he seems to understand a little better the game even though this one episode is just one scenario with 2 hours streams which is fine by me.
on the other hand about balance, i have to say that if you are playing bad initially and wasting a lot of prestige points on 1st scenarios, there will be prolly a point to the game that you won't have enough prestige to even have replacement on your troops from previews battle. History guy or something had that kind of a problem at the beggining of one of his scenarios, but still he made it to scenario 5 on medium settings. So if he was playing harder difficulty it wouldn't be possible for him to continue i assume. So the game is still on testing, but from what i ve seen i am excited. I am only hoping that there will be either dlcs or mods that will have grand campaigns as the 1st panzer corps.

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by prestidigitation » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:37 pm

I know the feeling re: watching people who seem to have never played an operational war game before. Very frustrating!

If the PzC2 team wants to pop me into the YouTube queue I'll start streaming it. I beat US Corps and Soviet Corps on diff 4 so am very experienced at using novel tactics and unit synergies to overcome design obstacles (like, say, an M4 Sherman that loses in a straight fight to a dated Pz4).

I've got detailed historical knowledge (so can discuss in detail the differences between 7TP and FT-17, or R35 and H35 and S35, or DLC vs DLM in the French Army for example) and a great deal of knowledge on the early war and on interwar development of operational art. Could be an interesting change for viewers used to youtubers with less of a historical focus!

The downside for many players is that all that reading has given me a fairly dim view of the Wehrmacht and the Nazis LOL! I'm also not the world's greatest user of cameras and recording software.

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by nexusno2000 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:19 am

There are many good players among the beta testers, but publicly publishing beta build gameplay is not allowed ATM.

Only the ppl that have gotten the preview version (which AFAIK includes the campaign up until the fall fo France) are allowed to show this on YouTube.

But once the game is launched there should be more to see on YouTube. I'll certainly post some gameplay there.
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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by Kerensky » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:33 pm

Looks like there are a lot of videos on Historical Gamer youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/thehistoricalgamer/videos

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by prestidigitation » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:48 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:33 pm
Looks like there are a lot of videos on Historical Gamer youtube channel.

https://www.youtube.com/user/thehistoricalgamer/videos
He's awful. It's rare to see such an incompetent player tbh. It'd be fine if he actually had some historical knowledge but no.

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by Kerensky » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:00 pm

prestidigitation wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:48 pm
He's awful. It's rare to see such an incompetent player tbh. It'd be fine if he actually had some historical knowledge but no.
I previewed the videos before I linked him.... is he really so awful? Seems okay. I mean... Sure maybe *I* play better, but are people really so hungry to see highest level play right now?
I mean come on, the game is so new it's not even out yet. Give people time to get a hang of it, learn all the nuances, and develop into better players. :)

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by Kerensky » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:05 pm

I mean, some of the tactics I can demonstrate are probably going to make people's head spin. But I'm under NDA so I can't show/discuss them at this point, sorry. :)

Point is, I still don't think it's reasonable to expect gamers to instantly play this game like pros. The only people with enough experience and knowledge about the game and its systems, at this stage before the game has even released, are the developers. And we're all not very hip with the youtube and streaming. (I don't even use social media) :P

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by prestidigitation » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:58 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:05 pm
I mean, some of the tactics I can demonstrate are probably going to make people's head spin. But I'm under NDA so I can't show/discuss them at this point, sorry. :)

Point is, I still don't think it's reasonable to expect gamers to instantly play this game like pros. The only people with enough experience and knowledge about the game and its systems, at this stage before the game has even released, are the developers. And we're all not very hip with the youtube and streaming. (I don't even use social media) :P
There's a difference between "I have no idea what this game is" and "I played PzC before and have some basic idea of how this should all go". He falls into the first camp. It has been tough finding people that fall into the second.

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by BloodCat » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:33 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:05 pm
I mean, some of the tactics I can demonstrate are probably going to make people's head spin. But I'm under NDA so I can't show/discuss them at this point, sorry. :)

Point is, I still don't think it's reasonable to expect gamers to instantly play this game like pros. The only people with enough experience and knowledge about the game and its systems, at this stage before the game has even released, are the developers. And we're all not very hip with the youtube and streaming. (I don't even use social media) :P
THG is the proverbial feather that broke... errr... made me start this thread. Being new to the game is one thing: you don't understand some game mechanic, so look at the tooltips, RTFM, try your new knowledge on some Poles -- and voila! -- this part of the game is clear; goto 1 with some other game aspect. Here though we can see playing with not only an abysmal understanding of WWII tactics and basic game mechanics, which is what we all started like at some point in the past, but a total unwillingness to correct that. How do you like assigning heroes without reading what bonus do they provide? Never looking at what unit stats actually mean? Repeatedly putting own units on river hexes without any tactical need -- and he knows units on rivers suffer penalties (same goes for moving armour into forests)? See, it's not the mistakes that irritate me -- it's the unwillingness/inability to learn from them. And again, I'm not some tactical genius or hardcore wargamer: all I've played in that segment during past years were PzC, UoC and V65... and CC, of course.
Is that the way PzC2 meant to be played on mid difficulty? And is that the kind of player it's made for?

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by matthew2582 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:57 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:00 pm
prestidigitation wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:48 pm
He's awful. It's rare to see such an incompetent player tbh. It'd be fine if he actually had some historical knowledge but no.
I previewed the videos before I linked him.... is he really so awful? Seems okay. I mean... Sure maybe *I* play better, but are people really so hungry to see highest level play right now?
I mean come on, the game is so new it's not even out yet. Give people time to get a hang of it, learn all the nuances, and develop into better players. :)
Historical Gamer never learns the nuances of the games he reviews - he just moves any unit any where till he wins or loses
Regards
Matthew

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Re: Any decent youtubers previewing PzC2?

Post by nexusno2000 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:41 pm

I've been given permission by Slitherine to upload game footage to YouTube starting Feb 6th.

This will most likely be from Beta 8 (we're on beta 7 now, the preview version was essentially beta 6, but it looks like the next iteration will hit before the 6th).

I will assume there are potential players unfamiliar with the PC mechanics, so will explain what's going on :D

The plan is to cover the scenarios in Poland, Norway, and France/Low countries.

That should be enough to showcase what's already - a month and a half before release - a GREAT game!
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