Favourite units so far?

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ragingrondo
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Re: Favourite units so far?

Post by ragingrondo » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:55 am

MickMannock wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:10 am
Kerensky wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:52 am

Well, yes and no. The special feature they have is the ability to disembark from air transport on any hex. Crete offers the three things needed on maps to make this useful beyond just directly attacking units. A very large map, lots of paratroopers, and lots of air transport. So you have room, and the means, to create mega sized encirclements.

It only took 3 paratroopers to make the encirclement, but I doubled it to 6 to make sure I had this giant encirclement locked down.
I think it's odd that so few units can create such a large encirclement.

For example, next to the highlighted paratrooper in your screenshot, there are two enemy units next to eachother. One is inside the encirclement and the other is on the outside of the encirclement. The positioning of those two units should break the encirclement, given how few units are actually creating the encirclement to begin with.
Think of encirclement in PZC2 more as stopping the strategic flow of supply to to the front lines. Even with those two units next to each other, as long as the enemy paratrooper stays in position, then the paratrooper is still able to "harass" the flow of supply. And, thats what triggers the encirclement modifier. That there is no way for supply to flow into a pocket without passing through enemy ZOC. This is why I love the general skill that can nullify enemy ZOC, so I can easily slip through and create these pockets.

Kerensky
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Re: Favourite units so far?

Post by Kerensky » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:57 am

MickMannock wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:10 am
I think it's odd that so few units can create such a large encirclement.

For example, next to the highlighted paratrooper in your screenshot, there are two enemy units next to eachother. One is inside the encirclement and the other is on the outside of the encirclement. The positioning of those two units should break the encirclement, given how few units are actually creating the encirclement to begin with.
I disagree. Recon cars also are very good at driving around or through enemy lines with their phase movement, they're very capable of creating large encirclements too. This was done in multiplayer, against a live human player, and without the aid of a large body of water blocking a whole quadrant of enemy supply lines. Note that split recon car that is the linchpin of the encirclement in the North Eastern section of the encirclement.

Image

As for adjacent enemies, one in and one out of encirclement, I don't see a problem. ZOC projection is not nullified by enemy ZOC. In the bottom right corner, the unit on the bridge has their supply ZOC blocked by my paratrooper in heavy woods projecting ZOC on to the road. While the unit on the road has clear ZOC for supply to travel into it from the road East of them.

Supply lines can reach the road hex. But they cannot reach the bridge hex.

MickMannock
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Re: Favourite units so far?

Post by MickMannock » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:09 am

Kerensky wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:57 am

I disagree. Recon cars also are very good at driving around or through enemy lines with their phase movement, they're very capable of creating large encirclements too. This was done in multiplayer, against a live human player, and without the aid of a large body of water blocking a whole quadrant of enemy supply lines. Note that split recon car that is the linchpin of the encirclement in the North Eastern section of the encirclement.


As for adjacent enemies, one in and one out of encirclement, I don't see a problem. ZOC projection is not nullified by enemy ZOC. In the bottom right corner, the unit on the bridge has their supply ZOC blocked by my paratrooper in heavy woods projecting ZOC on to the road. While the unit on the road has clear ZOC for supply to travel into it from the road East of them.

Supply lines can reach the road hex. But they cannot reach the bridge hex.
The new screenshot is more understandable. You have massive units creating the pocket. I'm totally fine with that one.

But in the screenshot with the paratroopers, to the south of the encirclement, it was basically one or two measly para units sealing the pocket against a much larger force, of which two are standing adjecant to eachother on a road. They should have had a greater capacity to create a zone of control, where supply can flow, compared to the lone paratrooper. I understand that the system doesn't work this way, but I'd say it's a bit flawed in that example.

pewp3w
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Re: Favourite units so far?

Post by pewp3w » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:56 am

Kerensky wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:57 am
MickMannock wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:10 am
I think it's odd that so few units can create such a large encirclement.

For example, next to the highlighted paratrooper in your screenshot, there are two enemy units next to eachother. One is inside the encirclement and the other is on the outside of the encirclement. The positioning of those two units should break the encirclement, given how few units are actually creating the encirclement to begin with.
I disagree. Recon cars also are very good at driving around or through enemy lines with their phase movement, they're very capable of creating large encirclements too. This was done in multiplayer, against a live human player, and without the aid of a large body of water blocking a whole quadrant of enemy supply lines. Note that split recon car that is the linchpin of the encirclement in the North Eastern section of the encirclement.

Image

As for adjacent enemies, one in and one out of encirclement, I don't see a problem. ZOC projection is not nullified by enemy ZOC. In the bottom right corner, the unit on the bridge has their supply ZOC blocked by my paratrooper in heavy woods projecting ZOC on to the road. While the unit on the road has clear ZOC for supply to travel into it from the road East of them.

Supply lines can reach the road hex. But they cannot reach the bridge hex.
Regarding that screenshot: Can't he just attack scout cars in the north east and destroy them, breaking the encirclement?

Hexaboo
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Re: Favourite units so far?

Post by Hexaboo » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:56 pm

That paratrooper encirclement: really impressive, and the opponent probably can't do anything about it, unlike the second example.

o_t_d_x
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Re: Favourite units so far?

Post by o_t_d_x » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:48 pm

Yeah Sturer Emil saved my army, when the russian counteroffensive at moscow started. But its not op, because after some time you cant repair it anymore. Prototypeparts are rare, it seems.

econ21
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Re: Favourite units so far?

Post by econ21 » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:22 pm

o_t_d_x wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:48 pm
Yeah Sturer Emil saved my army, when the russian counteroffensive at moscow started. But its not op, because after some time you cant repair it anymore. Prototypeparts are rare, it seems.
I never heard of a Sturer Emil until I read this thread. What a strange looking thing - as if a Nashorn and an Elephant had a baby! Very much a prototype! I am not surprised parts were rare, wikipedia says only 2 were built )so my ignorance of its existence is perhaps forgivable).

How does the prototype system work? Are you randomly given them like in PG2? That was one of the best things in that game, especially with a modded equipment file. Some comments about PzC2 make me wonder if they are more something you actively buy rather than are given, and may perhaps be linked to heroes (or heroes are randomly given like prototypes in PG2). I'm confused.

dalfrede
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Re: Favourite units so far?

Post by dalfrede » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:02 pm

econ21 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:22 pm
How does the prototype system work? Are you randomly given them like in PG2? That was one of the best things in that game, especially with a modded equipment file. Some comments about PzC2 make me wonder if they are more something you actively buy rather than are given, and may perhaps be linked to heroes (or heroes are randomly given like prototypes in PG2). I'm confused.
Prototypes show up in your purchase screen, you have the option to buy them.
They come in limited quantity so if you take causalities they have minimal replacements.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

Hexaboo
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Re: Favourite units so far?

Post by Hexaboo » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:04 pm

econ21 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:22 pm
How does the prototype system work? Are you randomly given them like in PG2? That was one of the best things in that game, especially with a modded equipment file. Some comments about PzC2 make me wonder if they are more something you actively buy rather than are given, and may perhaps be linked to heroes (or heroes are randomly given like prototypes in PG2). I'm confused.
Yep, they eventially appear in the unit shop, you buy them as normal units, but there is a limited supply (both for buying/overstrength and reinforcements). Say, StuG IIIB shows up before the invasion in France scenarios, and you have access to a total of 20 strength, meaning that you, say, can buy one unit (10) and have 10 strength left for reinforcements.

dalfrede: yarr, beat me to it! :D

George_Parr
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Re: Favourite units so far?

Post by George_Parr » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:40 pm

Lokesz wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:52 am
Note: It is not historic to get a selfpropelled prototype AT unit in june 1941 based on a AA gun that will be developed in 1942. Only after the encounter with T34 and KV1 did Germany decide to rush build some AT units and those were the Marders. A prototype Marder at Kiev is reasonable, a Sturer Emil at Barbarossa is pretty overpowered.
Not sure if I would consider a Marder to be any more reasonable. The Marder II and III didn't really enter production after the two Emils had been build, and they entered frontline service at about the same time in 1942. Neither has much of a reason to be around in 1941. That beign said, there's still the Dicker Max, which came with a big gun as well, and was used during Barbarossa.

Getting units a bit earlier than historic isn't really all that uncommon, it happened in PC as well. I mean, in US Corps you could capture the SdKfz 234/2 in Africa, even though the unit only entered service after the Allies had invaded Italy.

Hemi
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Re: Favourite units so far?

Post by Hemi » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:50 pm

dalfrede wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:02 pm
econ21 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:22 pm
How does the prototype system work? Are you randomly given them like in PG2? That was one of the best things in that game, especially with a modded equipment file. Some comments about PzC2 make me wonder if they are more something you actively buy rather than are given, and may perhaps be linked to heroes (or heroes are randomly given like prototypes in PG2). I'm confused.
Prototypes show up in your purchase screen, you have the option to buy them.
They come in limited quantity so if you take causalities they have minimal replacements.
Or you can upgrade to them

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