First impression

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Horseman
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 2:27 pm

First impression

Post by Horseman » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:41 pm

I've been a long time admirer of Slitherine games and have played many of them with great satisfaction.

PC was without a doubt one of my favourites and I must have 100s of hours in that game if not 1000s.

Having so far played through the tutorial and the first mission of the campaign I have to say, although it's taking a little getting used to some of the new features I'm loving PC2. At last a use for Recon and AT units (I only ever used them for flavour before) And Artillery whilst still powerful does not appear to be at quite the same (arguably) OP state it was!

I also like the new way of building your corp up - its will no longer be an automatic choice to upgrade to the newer and shinier units as they'll cost more slots so maybe its worth keeping some older units around.

One criticism - its not easy differentiating different units on the map! I even can't tell the difference between a 109 and my Stuka at a glance. This was never a problem in the original!

Keep it up guys - already looking forward to future DLC!

dalfrede
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
2nd Lieutenant - Elite Panzer IVF/2
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Re: First impression

Post by dalfrede » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:07 pm

Horseman wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:41 pm
One criticism - its not easy differentiating different units on the map! I even can't tell the difference between a 109 and my Stuka at a glance. This was never a problem in the original!
Use cameo to distinguish between fighters, TB, Strats, and Recon planes.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

Kerensky
Content Designer
Content Designer
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 am

Re: First impression

Post by Kerensky » Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:53 pm

Horseman wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:41 pm

One criticism - its not easy differentiating different units on the map! I even can't tell the difference between a 109 and my Stuka at a glance. This was never a problem in the original!
I know why aircraft bother me. Their default skins are too similar. Stuka and 109 have a similar profile, but they both have that yellow engine nose. Why that is, I have no idea. But as said above me, definitely use the camo reskin system to solve this issue. Works wonders.

Same goes for confusing my Bf110s and 2 engine strategic bombers. Gotta camo them up for quick identification.

Welcome back, maybe we'll see some of your epic AARs return eventually. That'd be cool. :mrgreen:

Patrick Ward
Slitherine
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Re: First impression

Post by Patrick Ward » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:29 am

Kerensky wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:53 pm

I know why aircraft bother me. Their default skins are too similar. Stuka and 109 have a similar profile, but they both have that yellow engine nose. Why that is, I have no idea. But as said above me, definitely use the camo reskin system to solve this issue. Works wonders.
We can only have one default aircraft skin so they will be similar. The yellow is baked into the main texture - ie. its separate to the camo.

The yellow identification colouring is different on the different variations of the aircraft types .. so the different 109s have different areas of yellow, same with the 190's, Ju87's etc. based on historical examples. So early in the war it was often used all over the nose, but by the end it was often just a fuselage stripe. So you can see a progression through the 109e, f and g.
This though breaks down where the designers have used one model to represent multiple variants.

I don't know why it wasn't flagged during beta but I suppose since you'll have multiple 109 variants on a map less often than you'll have a 109e and Ju87B (which both have early war yellow cowels) they need to be tweaked at some point.

As for vehicles. Its tricky. The visual difference between most tank variants was minimal though we made sure everything obvious was added . . so unique cupolars, thicker armour, extra storage bins, evolving engine decks, basically everything that might change the sillouette and areas of contrast and add up to the vehicle seeming to be different from the variant before. Aircraft type ID stripes would be ridiculous and theres no facility to add unique camo ( which wouldn't make sense for much of the war anyway ) or individual insignia. There was the option to go for some kind of charactertures to exagerate the unique features of each type but with hundreds and hundreds of models to make it was hard enough getting the historically correct let alone highly stylised.

P
............................

Pat a Pixel Pusher

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Kerensky
Content Designer
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Re: First impression

Post by Kerensky » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:41 am

Patrick Ward wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:29 am
We can only have one default aircraft skin so they will be similar.

The yellow identification colouring is different on the different variations of the aircraft types .. so the different 109s have different areas of yellow, same with the 190's, Ju87's etc. based on historical examples. So early in the war it was often used all over the nose, but by the end it was often just a fuselage stripe. So you can see a progression through the 109e, f and g.
This though breaks down where the designers have used one model to represent multiple variants.

I don't know why it wasn't flagged during beta but I suppose since you'll have multiple 109 variants on a map less often than you'll have a 109e and Ju87B (which both have early war yellow cowels) they need to be tweaked at some point.

P
While I appreciate the explanation and history behind it, I'm afraid it doesn't change player's perceptions that Stuka and 109 just look too similar.

Regardless, it's not a problem. Anyone having identity issues (no, not that kind) can easily customize their aircraft as they see fit from the wonderful bounty of unit skins, and even more so for those with the General or FM editions. :mrgreen:

Kerensky
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Re: First impression

Post by Kerensky » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:49 am

Just for fun, I loaded up Panzer Corps.

And I instantly was shocked at how it looks.

Image

I kind of think this is a case of rose tinted glasses. You can distinguish between 109 and Stuka in PzC because you're just so familiar with them. But to my eyes, who have not beheld it in so long... it's not a very strong contrast at all, and it's helped 0% by no ability to zoom in/out for a closer inspection.

Stuka and 109 have the same skin, with similar markings. The only difference is the larger Stuka canopy, and maybe you can kind of see the fixed landing gear jutting out from under the wing? I guess the Stuka seems to be a bit fatter too.

This is simply not a strong visual differentiation. :?

Horseman
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1243
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Re: First impression

Post by Horseman » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:46 pm

dalfrede wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:07 pm
Horseman wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:41 pm
One criticism - its not easy differentiating different units on the map! I even can't tell the difference between a 109 and my Stuka at a glance. This was never a problem in the original!
Use cameo to distinguish between fighters, TB, Strats, and Recon planes.
Yeah that's what I think I'll resort too - was also going to use new camp schemes to help me locate my heros.

Horseman
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1243
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 2:27 pm

Re: First impression

Post by Horseman » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:47 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:53 pm
Horseman wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:41 pm

One criticism - its not easy differentiating different units on the map! I even can't tell the difference between a 109 and my Stuka at a glance. This was never a problem in the original!
I know why aircraft bother me. Their default skins are too similar. Stuka and 109 have a similar profile, but they both have that yellow engine nose. Why that is, I have no idea. But as said above me, definitely use the camo reskin system to solve this issue. Works wonders.

Same goes for confusing my Bf110s and 2 engine strategic bombers. Gotta camo them up for quick identification.

Welcome back, maybe we'll see some of your epic AARs return eventually. That'd be cool. :mrgreen:
Thanks for the welcome - lots has changed over the past years- notably the arrival of two children, might find it hard to have the time to make a proper AAR but we'll see.

calmhatchery
Captain - Bf 110D
Captain - Bf 110D
Posts: 852
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Re: First impression

Post by calmhatchery » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:14 pm

This still look amazingly good. I like it...

Kerensky wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:49 am
Just for fun, I loaded up Panzer Corps.

And I instantly was shocked at how it looks.

Image

I kind of think this is a case of rose tinted glasses. You can distinguish between 109 and Stuka in PzC because you're just so familiar with them. But to my eyes, who have not beheld it in so long... it's not a very strong contrast at all, and it's helped 0% by no ability to zoom in/out for a closer inspection.

Stuka and 109 have the same skin, with similar markings. The only difference is the larger Stuka canopy, and maybe you can kind of see the fixed landing gear jutting out from under the wing? I guess the Stuka seems to be a bit fatter too.

This is simply not a strong visual differentiation. :?

Dorky8
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:24 pm

Re: First impression

Post by Dorky8 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:26 pm

Very favorable impression so far. The combat mechanics are much more sophisticated than PC1, this is a big improvement.

Completely agree on differentiating units. In the MP Tobruck scenario all units are beige and very hard to tell apart. The 109 looks too much like the 87 also.

Multiplayer has worked well for me, it does need quite a few upgrades (mentioned in other threads) over the long haul.

Brenmusik
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Lieutenant Colonel - Fw 190A
Posts: 1117
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Location: Albion

Re: First impression

Post by Brenmusik » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:30 pm

Tobruk MP isn't working well for me :wink: (in game).

Dorky8
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:24 pm

Re: First impression

Post by Dorky8 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:58 pm

:D

Off topic but

In PC1 I got to the point that I was a pretty decent player. I don't know what it was but I rarely won Steamroller, my troubles seem to be continuing here.

:roll:

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