FOG2 Developer’s Diary – Innovations and Differences

[stockwellpete]

Sounds kind of cool, but also I think I would rage if something like that happened.

Yes, it did have that effect on many of us, especially when your mounted knights charged through another friendly unit to get to the enemy, causing them to lose a cohesion level in the process. It was quite a realistic rule though and it meant you had to take care over the timing of your cavalry charges and how you deployed your other shock troops.

[stockwellpete]

New Random Generated Maps!
Terrain maps for non-preset scenarios are freshly generated using a sophisticated random map generator – not picked from a library of preset maps. Every map is therefore unique. The map generator can generate realistic maps for all the usual territory types – including agricultural, wooded, hilly, mountains, steppes and desert in Mediterranean, North European, Middle Eastern and Tropical regions.
The battle is fought on a square grid rather than a hexagonal grid. This allows realistic looking battle lines, and 8 directions of movement instead of 6. The computer takes care of the issue of diagonal moves being further than orthogonal ones.

The maps I have played on so far have been excellent and definitely a grade above the maps provided in FOG1. Gone are the days when your heavy infantry army is faced with a map full of rough ground or your medium foot army is confronted with a featureless plain. The new maps are "neutral" in the sense that they generally do not favour either side and they have a lot more detail in them which a good player will be able to exploit.

Mathematical Algorithms
Unlike FOG1, FOG2 does not attempt to replicate the tabletop game’s dice, but uses mathemaMatical algorithms that avoid some of the extreme against-the-odds combat results that could occur in FOG1[/b]

I think this was the biggest problem in FOG1 and it has just gone in FOG2. Every now and then you will get a result that goes against the norm and gives you a problem as a general, but that is realistic. After all, this is not a game of chess.

As someone who played FOG1 a lot, designed scenarios and help run the competitions, I can only say that I am expecting this new version of FOG to be a great success.

[XOPT13]

In field of glory 1 some had to past an anarchy test to not charge the enemy without orders this was frustrating sometimes because calvary sometimes charged pikes uphill resulting in a disaster.

But it is historically accurate.

[antipasta]

Looks great so far but it is the command control system that I am really interested in ...
1) in FoG 1 the AI seems to randomly move individual units in different directions even though they are in the same group, command, warband etc. Be nice to see them move together as one at least until first contact made.
2) Do you remember the restriction on ordering units in Legion Arena? I loved the idea of forming an overall battle plan but then only being limited (depending on the skill/stats of your commander) to the number of orders you could subsequently give during the battle. Be good to only be able to giver orders to one of two groups each turn rather than every single unit. And perhaps there is a delay depending on the distance the group and the commander are from each other. If you have sent your left wing cavalry on a wide sweeping manoeuvre and things are going badly - tough - unless your commander is with them. Of course things might now be going badly on your right flank but you will no longer be unable to micro-manage.
Looking forward to this one from the developer notes I have read so far!

[rbodleyscott]

Looks great so far but it is the command control system that I am really interested in ...
1) in FoG 1 the AI seems to randomly move individual units in different directions even though they are in the same group, command, warband etc. Be nice to see them move together as one at least until first contact made.

They do do so until within 5 squares of the enemy.

2) Do you remember the restriction on ordering units in Legion Arena? I loved the idea of forming an overall battle plan but then only being limited (depending on the skill/stats of your commander) to the number of orders you could subsequently give during the battle. Be good to only be able to giver orders to one of two groups each turn rather than every single unit. And perhaps there is a delay depending on the distance the group and the commander are from each other. If you have sent your left wing cavalry on a wide sweeping manoeuvre and things are going badly - tough - unless your commander is with them. Of course things might now be going badly on your right flank but you will no longer be unable to micro-manage.

We decided not to restrict player control in this way. Control does diminish and the game proceeds and units get locked in melee, involved in cavalry pursuits etc.

[nox16555]

Looks great so far but it is the command control system that I am really interested in ...
1) in FoG 1 the AI seems to randomly move individual units in different directions even though they are in the same group, command, warband etc. Be nice to see them move together as one at least until first contact made.

They do do so until within 5 squares of the enemy.

2) Do you remember the restriction on ordering units in Legion Arena? I loved the idea of forming an overall battle plan but then only being limited (depending on the skill/stats of your commander) to the number of orders you could subsequently give during the battle. Be good to only be able to giver orders to one of two groups each turn rather than every single unit. And perhaps there is a delay depending on the distance the group and the commander are from each other. If you have sent your left wing cavalry on a wide sweeping manoeuvre and things are going badly - tough - unless your commander is with them. Of course things might now be going badly on your right flank but you will no longer be unable to micro-manage.

We decided not to restrict player control in this way. Control does diminish and the game proceeds and units get locked in melee, involved in cavalry pursuits etc.

I saw one of the unit cards says "unmaneuverable" and from what it looks like It can only move forward. Is that correct? are there units that can only move forward?

[rbodleyscott]

I saw one of the unit cards says "unmaneuverable" and from what it looks like It can only move forward. Is that correct? are there units that can only move forward?

No. Most units get a free 45 degree turn, unmanoeuvrable units don't, they pay 4 AP for a 45 degree turn. This makes them less manoeuvrable.

[MojoAmok]

This is looking great - an instant purchase and one of my most anticipated titles as of now (this and Battletech from Harebrained Schemes).

[nox16555]

I saw one of the unit cards says "unmaneuverable" and from what it looks like It can only move forward. Is that correct? are there units that can only move forward?

No. Most units get a free 45 degree turn, unmanoeuvrable units don't, they pay 4 AP for a 45 degree turn. This makes them less manoeuvrable.

that makes sense.

[LFDLM]

The innovations are fine, but
"Anarchy charges (which players either loved or hated) no longer occur in FOG2."!!??

Some players (who hates anarchy charges) shouldn't play ancient games...

Thanks for the rest...The game is getting better and better.

You're right...

[stockwellpete]

However, in addition, FOG2 will implement Slitherine’s automated tournament system.

Will you be wanting to test this automated tournament system as part of the beta process at some stage?

[rbodleyscott]

However, in addition, FOG2 will implement Slitherine’s automated tournament system.

Will you be wanting to test this automated tournament system as part of the beta process at some stage?

Yes, once we have it working.

[Lysimachos]

The description of the game gives the idea of a phantastic game!
I'll buy it the day of its reease.
So just a couple of questions.

Will it be possible to launch MP challenges with a pre-arranged army for the opponent to take?
In the futures are going to be expansions about other time period like, for example, the Late Bronze Age? (I still miss the chariot armies of StE book ...)

[rbodleyscott]

Will it be possible to launch MP challenges with a pre-arranged army for the opponent to take?

Pre-arranged army list (e.g. Romans 220-200 BC vs Carthaginians 218-217 BC), not prearranged OOB.

In the futures are going to be expansions about other time period like, for example, the Late Bronze Age? (I still miss the chariot armies of StE book ...)

That would be telling.

[nox16555]

Will it be possible to launch MP challenges with a pre-arranged army for the opponent to take?

Pre-arranged army list (e.g. Romans 220-200 BC vs Carthaginians 218-217 BC), not prearranged OOB.

In the futures are going to be expansions about other time period like, for example, the Late Bronze Age? (I still miss the chariot armies of StE book ...)

That would be telling.

I am just happy to see some romen civil war.

[mceochaidh]

The "Random Map Generator" seems very flexible. A few questions.
1) What is the max map size?
2) For particular army sizes, will an appropriate size map be generated?
3) Can a larger map be chosen if one would want more manuever before battle? Say, use a map normally generated for 1500 points and actually using 1000 points. This creates some additional uncertainty in certain scenarios.
4) Being a computer game has many advantages over miniature games, especially (pardon the pun) Fog of War. I assume that deployment will allow ambushes to be placed and visibility will be based on line of sight?

Ready to saddle up!

Mac

[rbodleyscott]

The "Random Map Generator" seems very flexible. A few questions.
1) What is the max map size?

64 x 64 squares

2) For particular army sizes, will an appropriate size map be generated?

Yes, unless you over-ride the default settings.

3) Can a larger map be chosen if one would want more manuever before battle? Say, use a map normally generated for 1500 points and actually using 1000 points. This creates some additional uncertainty in certain scenarios.

Yes

4) Being a computer game has many advantages over miniature games, especially (pardon the pun) Fog of War. I assume that deployment will allow ambushes to be placed and visibility will be based on line of sight?

Yes

[Old_Warrior]

The anarchy charges where Roman units would suddenly leave ranks to attack were terribly innacurate but were VERY accurate for the "barbarian" hordes. The Roman cavalry probably suffered from this but definitely not the Roman legionary infantry. Also: pulling the medium cavalry of the mounted bow armies out of the line was a pain. A lot of times they would charge Knights instead. So yes, like many I have mixed feelings on this but I can live without the anarchy charges.

What I would like to know is about the Pursuit. Is it just like Pike and Shot where the unit pursuing suddenly leaves its "prey" and thunders into the flank of another unit? If so that needs to change. The pursuing unit should continue following the unit it is pursuing and not become some "Angel of Destruction" force like it currently does in P&S.

Pursuing off the map is a must for these ancient games and of course the ability to come back again is important too.

Looking forward to getting my hands on the beta and trying it out

[yakisoba]

So excited about this new version!

I have a question about the archers... Will it be possible to use indirect archery over the heads of infantry? So that a line of infantry can screen the archers? Or was that not a tactic that was in use in those times?

[rbodleyscott]

So excited about this new version!

I have a question about the archers... Will it be possible to use indirect archery over the heads of infantry? So that a line of infantry can screen the archers? Or was that not a tactic that was in use in those times?

It wasn't used to any great extent. The Romans sometimes put a couple of ranks of light archers behind the legions, but that would not be enough to lay down a significant fire, so we assume they were there to help take the edge off a cavalry charge - e.g. Arrian's order of battle against the Alans.

Large bodies of archers simply could not fire effectively over other troops.

However, light archers are allowed to pass through heavy foot units, so they have a good chance of escaping enemy charges.