deep stream clarification

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
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vakarr
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deep stream clarification

Post by vakarr » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:07 am

One of my current battles has a deep stream (that can be crossed anywhere) right across the battlefield, covering the whole of the front of my army. Am I right in thinking I have to be behind, but not on the stream to gain the obstacle benefit? My enemy had a light horse unit behind the stream and when I looked at charging it with heavy cavalry, the odds were very much in favour of the light horse. What exactly is the effect of a deep stream?

rbodleyscott
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Re: deep stream clarification

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:18 am

vakarr wrote:One of my current battles has a deep stream (that can be crossed anywhere) right across the battlefield, covering the whole of the front of my army. Am I right in thinking I have to be behind, but not on the stream to gain the obstacle benefit? My enemy had a light horse unit behind the stream and when I looked at charging it with heavy cavalry, the odds were very much in favour of the light horse. What exactly is the effect of a deep stream?
It counts as difficult terrain, hence the unit that is in it is disordered/severely disordered unless light foot.

It does not give an obstacle POA.

So yes, you have to be behind but not on the stream to reap the benefit. And you should not charge the unit in the stream, you have to let them charge you. The same as other difficult terrain.
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vakarr
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Re: deep stream clarification

Post by vakarr » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:09 am

Thankyou, Richard, I thought maybe I was asking an idiot question but it wasn't! So if you have light infantry they should be in the stream and if they are charged by cavalry they won't evade? Presumably if they are behind the stream (in clear terrain) they will evade. If you have light infantry charged by medium infantry I suppose you should also have the light infantry in the stream if you want to stand and fight.

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Re: deep stream clarification

Post by rbodleyscott » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:44 am

vakarr wrote:Presumably if they are behind the stream (in clear terrain) they will evade.
Not necessarily, because the decision to evade takes into account the actual combat situation at the point of impact - i.e. it takes into account the enemy being in the difficult going at the point of impact, even if they didn't start their charge in it.
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76mm
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Re: deep stream clarification

Post by 76mm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:58 pm

rbodleyscott wrote:It counts as difficult terrain, hence the unit that is in it is disordered/severely disordered unless light foot.
In one of my MP games there is a deep stream, which the tooltip described as "not open" terrain. Difficult terrain seems to have a much more severe effect on my heavy foot's ability than "non-open", and my deployment is all screwed up as a result... Is difficult the same as non-open, and if not could the tooltip be incorrect?

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Re: deep stream clarification

Post by vakarr » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:25 pm

No non-open just means that certain POA's such as a cavalry charge in the open don't apply - the deep stream definitely is difficult terrain, as my cavalry are severely disordered in it.

76mm
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Re: deep stream clarification

Post by 76mm » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:18 am

vakarr wrote:No non-open just means that certain POA's such as a cavalry charge in the open don't apply - the deep stream definitely is difficult terrain, as my cavalry are severely disordered in it.
That's what I thought; seems like it would be more helpful if the tooltip for deep streams said "difficult terrain". Seriously messed up my plans in one battle I'm in...

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Re: deep stream clarification

Post by the_iron_duke » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:26 am

Plus, it would be helpful if difficult streams looked different... :wink:

rbodleyscott
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Re: deep stream clarification

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:09 am

76mm wrote:
vakarr wrote:No non-open just means that certain POA's such as a cavalry charge in the open don't apply - the deep stream definitely is difficult terrain, as my cavalry are severely disordered in it.
That's what I thought; seems like it would be more helpful if the tooltip for deep streams said "difficult terrain". Seriously messed up my plans in one battle I'm in...
But what the tooltip actually says is: "Not Open. Severely disorders mounted, elephants~and heavy foot, disorders others except light foot."

This is exactly the same as what it says for all other types of Difficult terrain, including woods and marshes.

However, I can look into explicitly adding the words Difficult Terrain and Rough terrain for all such types.
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Patrick Ward
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Re: deep stream clarification

Post by Patrick Ward » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:32 pm

the_iron_duke wrote:Plus, it would be helpful if difficult streams looked different... :wink:
Yeah. As already mentioned in a previous thread, that was an oversight. I wasn't aware of the existence of difficult/deep streams when doing the art and trying to change it now would break all the scenarios that have streams, both deep and regular and the random map generator used for custom battles and the editor. So we're aware of it and would like to fix it but it needs some thought.
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76mm
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Re: deep stream clarification

Post by 76mm » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:40 pm

rbodleyscott wrote: This is exactly the same as what it says for all other types of Difficult terrain, including woods and marshes.
OK, but unlike woods and marshes, which are visually distinct, these streams look exactly like the small streams I've attacked over many times with no problem. I think it would be helpful if difficult terrain is labeled as such, as with Difficult Slopes.

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