Non-lancer cavalry tactics

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
choppinlt
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:14 pm

Re: Non-lancer cavalry tactics

Post by choppinlt » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:39 am

Paul59 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:50 pm
choppinlt wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:43 pm
Paul59 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:07 pm
I wonder if it is possible to change the scripts so that cavalry can break off from combat, but stay in the current tile if there is no clear tile to fall back into. That would stop any gamey tactics.
Regarding modding the scripts, THAT is a REALLY good idea! Not sure if we can do it, but great suggestion!
I was thinking a change to the official game, rather than a mod.
AGREED, but your suggestion made me curious if this could be modded for the short term... :D
SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:53 am
As for the Fall Back blocked problem - I agree that this is too gamey and is a problem, but addressing it would not be simple. A few possibilities come to mind -

1) A unit Falling Back physically pushes back friendly units behind it. This might look mildly ridiculous, and would actually be an advantage to many sorts of units breaking contact. Perhaps this Fall Back pushing units behind would apply only to lights, with formed troops blocking Fall Backs.

2) Fall Back in place. A unit could Fall Back without actually physically moving a square. Yet this could allow evady cavalry to Fall Back in place, and then be able to evade away from enemy troops closing in from behind - seems a bit much. It would also somewhat disadvantage non-shock infantry, who would be subjected to more missile fire - if they charged a unit of archers and it Fell Back in place, it could fire again before they could reengage, whereas right now they remain locked in melee.

3) My current thinking - if a unit Falls Back, and its rear is blocked by non-light troops, it Falls Back in place but takes a cohesion test. If its rear is blocked by light troops, the light troops get pushed out of the way and the unit Falls Back without an additional cohesion test. This would prevent players locking either their own or enemy units into place to set up flank attacks with light troops. It would make it extra risky to set up flank attacks by blocking your own units Fall Back path - losing one round of combat could lead to a disruption, and the Fall Back in place cohesion check could subsequently lead to Fragmentation or Rout. The downside is that you would be able to cause extra cohesion checks on enemy units just by parking, say, a 32 point unit of Indian Cavalry behind them. It would also open up the question of what would happen if a unit couldn't be pushed back due to similar circumstances (a blocking non-light unit - with friendlies potentially supporting, so not causing a cohesion check?)- does it all get too complicated? Is the current situation the least bad one? It would require extensive testing to figure out.
Number 3 is exactly what I was proposing earlier, though you stated it much better... 8) So yes at a minimum I would like to see a Fall Back in-place to charging cav. My response to the 32 pt Indian Cav is DON'T LET THEM BEHIND YOU! :lol: My point here is I'm fine if a unit has enemy to its rear blocking, suffers a fall back, then takes a cohesion test. In fact if a unit suffers a fall back and can't complete its move for any reason (terrain, enemy or friendly troops, I'm OK with a cohesion test. That sounds like a bad spot on a battlefield. I definitely think it is worth allowing friendly lights to be pushed out of the way by non-light fall backs.

Blastom1016
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:34 am

Re: Non-lancer cavalry tactics

Post by Blastom1016 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:07 pm

I just figured out using a superior cavalry for what I tried to do can solve this problem. Superior ones are less likely to retreat on contact :)

Blastom1016
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:34 am

Re: Non-lancer cavalry tactics

Post by Blastom1016 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:52 am

Ok they’re generally crap, except the 32 points ones, which can be used as flankers.
I just got my 60-points mtd huscarl routed in one turn by an spearman, who accurately charged.
The horses tried to evade even surrounded by allied units and got rear charged on enemy turn and dropped from disrupted to routed in next melee.
I don’t think armor or quality can help them, lol!

Geffalrus
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 559
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:06 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Non-lancer cavalry tactics

Post by Geffalrus » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:28 pm

60 point non-lancer cavalry is actually fairly decent in certain situations. They have Superior for +50 and Armored for +25. Combine that with a general's +50, and they can actually fight back against lancers in certain situations. Once you leave Classical, you start running into Average lancers, who while cheaper, are also more vulnerable to 60 point armored cavalry in the right circumstance. I've found that charging on my turn is more likely to stick the unit in combat than waiting for the enemy to charge.

Getting charged by spearmen is not the best use of the 60 point cavalry. From a purely points perspective, a 42 point spearman can nullify the combat potential of the 60 point cavalry without too much effort. To prevent that, you want to keep the cavalry more than 2 spaces away from the spear so that you cannot become caught in ZOC and lose your mobility advantage. What you want is enough space for your 60 point cavalry to move around the flank or rear of your enemy, so that they need to dedicate multiple 42 point spears to warding you off. In that case, you have a point advantage, using 60 points to nullify 84 or even 126 points - a much better values.

Of course, even 40 point or 32 point light spear cavalry can do that. You may not always have the choice. But the reason to use the 60 point version other than necessity is that they really are better in combat than the 44, 40, and 32 point versions. They can decently fight other cavalry, they can survive arrow fire a bit better thanks to armor and quality, and they can actually beat down medium sword infantry if they have a general.

Blastom1016
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:34 am

Re: Non-lancer cavalry tactics

Post by Blastom1016 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:56 am

Geffalrus wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:28 pm
60 point non-lancer cavalry is actually fairly decent in certain situations. They have Superior for +50 and Armored for +25. Combine that with a general's +50, and they can actually fight back against lancers in certain situations. Once you leave Classical, you start running into Average lancers, who while cheaper, are also more vulnerable to 60 point armored cavalry in the right circumstance. I've found that charging on my turn is more likely to stick the unit in combat than waiting for the enemy to charge.

Getting charged by spearmen is not the best use of the 60 point cavalry. From a purely points perspective, a 42 point spearman can nullify the combat potential of the 60 point cavalry without too much effort. To prevent that, you want to keep the cavalry more than 2 spaces away from the spear so that you cannot become caught in ZOC and lose your mobility advantage. What you want is enough space for your 60 point cavalry to move around the flank or rear of your enemy, so that they need to dedicate multiple 42 point spears to warding you off. In that case, you have a point advantage, using 60 points to nullify 84 or even 126 points - a much better values.

Of course, even 40 point or 32 point light spear cavalry can do that. You may not always have the choice. But the reason to use the 60 point version other than necessity is that they really are better in combat than the 44, 40, and 32 point versions. They can decently fight other cavalry, they can survive arrow fire a bit better thanks to armor and quality, and they can actually beat down medium sword infantry if they have a general.
They escaped from impact foot as well, while leaded another unit got flank charged :lol:
They have an upper hand in cavalry vs cavalry, I think, but not as cost-efficient as cheaper one on other situations.

Post Reply

Return to “Field of Glory II”