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Where are the Scara?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:05 am
by vaalen
Inspired by Wolves, I have been doing some reading about Charlemagne.

Ge gad a large bodyguard, called the Scara. Made up of elite veterans, the Scara were very well armored and armed, having the best and most expensive arms , warhorses, and armor, and usually fought as heavy cavalry, though they were also quite effective when dismounted. The game does not include them, though the Franks do have mailed lancers.

It would be nice to see these elite warriors in the campaign and the army list, as they would add something unique to the Franks, and would be fun to use. I have enjoyed using the Varangian Guard when playing the Byzantines, as well as the Klibonarii, and I would like to see the Franks of Charlemagne have elite troops of their own.

Re: Where are the Scara?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:05 am
by melm
Scara is mounted infantry who ussually fight on foot. I think superior quality dismounted lancers are them.
Or you may refer to Scola, heavy cavalrymen. I think they are the superior lancers in game since Franks have another lancer with no helmet, protected level, above average quality lancers.

Re: Where are the Scara?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:16 pm
by vaalen
melm wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:05 am
Scara is mounted infantry who ussually fight on foot. I think superior quality dismounted lancers are them.
Or you may refer to Scola, heavy cavalrymen. I think they are the superior lancers in game since Franks have another lancer with no helmet, protected level, above average quality lancers.
It is often difficult to know the details of that period, which is why sources often disagree.

I have read several sources similar to this one.

https://deadliestblogpage.wordpress.com ... arlemagne/

I do not know if the link will work, but it does provide enough detail to find the article with an ordinary search if desired.

It describes the Scara as professional soldiers, maintained by the King even in times of peace, who were elite veterans who could fight very well on horse and foot.
Since they were elite troops, it seems valid to make them better than ordinary mounted armored lancers, or dismounted armored lancers. A wikipedia article I read claimed that the Scara were described in most primary sources as being given the most important missions, which again supports their being the best of the Frankish troops.

If added to the game, there should be both a mounted Sacra unit and a dismounted Scara unit available.

Re: Where are the Scara?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:52 pm
by MVP7
Dismounted armoured cavalry are the best units the Franks have available so that's probably where Scara would be. It is a bit unfortunate though that in FoG2 the Franks never really have an edge over their contemporaries when it comes to cavalry since numerical superiority doesn't matter. Some smaller factions can actually bring more superior armoured cavalry to the battle due to their relative army composition.

It would be nice to have a highly superior Armoured Lancer unit with the distinctive Carolingian helmets in the later Frankish and maybe French army lists. From what I have read, the Western Franks relied more heavily on their cavalry and were more likely to stay mounted during battle compared to their neighbors. Having a few units of cherry picked cavalry would nicely portray this within the limits of Army List system.

Re: Where are the Scara?

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:49 pm
by vaalen
MVP7 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:52 pm
Dismounted armoured cavalry are the best units the Franks have available so that's probably where Scara would be. It is a bit unfortunate though that in FoG2 the Franks never really have an edge over their contemporaries when it comes to cavalry since numerical superiority doesn't matter. Some smaller factions can actually bring more superior armoured cavalry to the battle due to their relative army composition.

It would be nice to have a highly superior Armoured Lancer unit with the distinctive Carolingian helmets in the later Frankish and maybe French army lists. From what I have read, the Western Franks relied more heavily on their cavalry and were more likely to stay mounted during battle compared to their neighbors. Having a few units of cherry picked cavalry would nicely portray this within the limits of Army List system.

I agree. The Franks under Charlemagne won the vast majority of their battles, and conquered a large area, defeating tough opponents like the Saxons, Lombards, Avars, and others. They were quite formidable. Yet the Franks in the campaign seem to be lacking something, and to be less formidable than they were historically. Your suggestion would fill that void, and put the Scara in the game.

The Klibonarii and the Varangian Guard are elite units that give a special boost to the Byzantines in the Basil II campaign, and to the army of that period, a boost that they need, and it works well without making them too formidable. Having mounted and dismounted Scara as highly superior units would give a similar benefit to the Franks, and make using them more fun.

Re: Where are the Scara?

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:45 pm
by Nijis
I like the idea of having that distinctive Carolingian helmet, if the design budget is there. They seem pretty iconic for their period, as much so as triarii or Praetorians, and the early medieval lancer model gets quite a lot of use.

Re: Where are the Scara?

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:16 am
by Gaznak
If I recall correctly TT Carolingian armies had the option to take a better lancer, they were called retinue or palace troops or something. The upgrade didn't make them elite though, it made them drilled instead of undrilled. Maybe slight upgrade to into highly superior would approximate the same upgrade within the FOG2 environment.

Re: Where are the Scara?

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:47 am
by rbodleyscott
Nijis wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:45 pm
I like the idea of having that distinctive Carolingian helmet, if the design budget is there.
Sadly it isn't, otherwise we would already have had them.

Re: Where are the Scara?

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:16 pm
by Nijis
Ah well - thanks for the answer.