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Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:27 am
by Dux Limitis
I think should give the shield wall units some helmets like dailami foot(some one have and some one not)?These units are in many army lists,it's impossible of so many countries could not afford at least some helmets for the troopers.Especially the anglo-saxon army lists.Between the 600-949ad's army lists they don't have any helmets.Even the king's hirdsmen are no armor,no helmets.I think it's really unhistorical.some christianity anglo-saxon age's helmet relics were already there now,and some sculptures can prove this age's saxons do have helmets.I'll sign my resources blow,also with armors' references.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:33 am
by Dux Limitis
relics and a relief.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:40 am
by Dux Limitis
Modern research and a sculpture.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:44 am
by Dux Limitis
Relief and modern replica.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:58 am
by Dux Limitis
Modern replica and research.Even the rich fyrdsmen could afford mail armor,so why the hirdsmen couldn't have in the game?

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:45 am
by Scartabelli
Well, I guess it does make sense for some of the men in shieldwall to wear helmets. Like 25% would be good. Helmets weren't cheap but they would be the first thing to buy by a warrior if he could afford some more protection.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:25 am
by Dux Limitis
Scartabelli wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:45 am
Well, I guess it does make sense for some of the men in shieldwall to wear helmets. Like 25% would be good. Helmets weren't cheap but they would be the first thing to buy by a warrior if he could afford some more protection.
Indeed,they should have some,but most important thing is,in the game the king's hirdsmen are no helmet and armors too,that's really unhistorical.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:16 pm
by Dux Limitis
The king's hirdsmen in the game.Seems just use the unarmoured cavalry unit's model to repaint.It's really so hard to make a new armoured model for hirdsmen?

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:44 pm
by MVP7
I don't think the shieldwalls really need helmets or other armour as most most armies that use them already have some armoured spearmen to depict the wealthier warriors. The current Hirdsmen are really lightly equipped for their status though.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:09 pm
by Dux Limitis
MVP7 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:44 pm
I don't think the shieldwalls really need helmets or other armour as most most armies that use them already have some armoured spearmen to depict the wealthier warriors. The current Hirdsmen are really lightly equipped for their status though.
Did you see I say"some" helmets?They do just need some helmets of their models,some have but some not,like dailami foot,that's will makes them looks more real,and the christianity age's anglo-saxon's army lists don't have any armoured units even helmet models before 949ad in the game.According to those reference,that's really unreal.And hirdsmen's status are above the fyrds,even some rich fyrdsmen could afford the mail shirt,so why the hirds are unarmoured in the game?There's only one reason caused that,they don't wanna make new models for these,shield wall units=former ostrogoths spearmen changed unit's name and some attributes.Hirdsmen=unarmoured cavalry unit's model repaint and quality changes.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:23 pm
by MVP7
I did agree the hirdsmen should have heavier equipment (like some byrnies and helmets)... I'd rather see no helmets at all for the raw/regular shieldwalls because vast majority of them wouldn't have any and for most armies the better equipped warriors are covered by other units.

Devs will be the first to admit that models are reused on several occasions and it's not a matter of wanting to make new models but of the limited budget that they have to work with.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:36 am
by Dux Limitis
MVP7 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:23 pm
I'd rather see no helmets at all for the raw/regular shieldwalls
Just need some helmets for the regular shield wall,like mr.scartabelli said 25% will be good.There're 8 models in one regular shield wall unit so that means only 2-3 models will have helmets and others not.Helmet is the secondary important thing of the protection,some one may not afford the body armor but they could afford the helmet,just need 25% of the unit's total models got helmets,that's really will makes them more real.And they also did this on the dailami foot,but it's 50%.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:56 am
by jomni
Should the hemet design be nation specific or any nation can have 25% of the same helmet? Because many nations use the same shield wall unit.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:16 am
by rbodleyscott
You don't need to provide evidence. We are well aware that some of the men in a shieldwall would have helmets.

However, as we have mentioned before, we are a small studio and our art budget (and art time allocation) is not infinite.

There were simply too many variations of appearance in Ancient and Dark Age armies for us to represent all of them within our available budget.

Some compromises have been made in order to get the game (and DLCs) out at all.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:22 am
by Dux Limitis
jomni wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:56 am
Should the hemet design be nation specific or any nation can have 25% of the same helmet? Because many nations use the same shield wall unit.
I think better use the ridge helmet?Many shieldwall-used nations have that type of helmet.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:35 am
by Dux Limitis
rbodleyscott wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:16 am
However, as we have mentioned before, we are a small studio and our art budget (and art time allocation) is not infinite.

There were simply too many variations of appearance in Ancient and Dark Age armies for us to represent all of them within our available budget.

Some compromises have been made in order to get the game (and DLCs) out at all.
Sad,always because of this,let I say, if you have budget problems,then you can just rise the price of the game or DLC,or you can just sell unit packs like the total war,if this could let you get more money to make more unit and new unit models,I'm sure that is worth to try and peoples willing to buy.At least I will paid just because some new unit and models.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:19 am
by melm
rbodleyscott wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:16 am
You don't need to provide evidence. We are well aware that some of the men in a shieldwall would have helmets.

However, as we have mentioned before, we are a small studio and our art budget (and art time allocation) is not infinite.

There were simply too many variations of appearance in Ancient and Dark Age armies for us to represent all of them within our available budget.

Some compromises have been made in order to get the game (and DLCs) out at all.
I'd like to know why the protection rating of hirdsman as "protected" but huscarl as "armoured"?

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:26 pm
by Dux Limitis
melm wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:19 am
rbodleyscott wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:16 am
You don't need to provide evidence. We are well aware that some of the men in a shieldwall would have helmets.

However, as we have mentioned before, we are a small studio and our art budget (and art time allocation) is not infinite.

There were simply too many variations of appearance in Ancient and Dark Age armies for us to represent all of them within our available budget.

Some compromises have been made in order to get the game (and DLCs) out at all.
I'd like to know why the protection rating of hirdsman as "protected" but huscarl as "armoured"?
Because of the models.You didn't see that?Hirdsmen models are totally no armor and helmets.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:21 pm
by TheGrayMouser
Dux Limitis wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:26 pm
melm wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:19 am
rbodleyscott wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:16 am
You don't need to provide evidence. We are well aware that some of the men in a shieldwall would have helmets.

However, as we have mentioned before, we are a small studio and our art budget (and art time allocation) is not infinite.

There were simply too many variations of appearance in Ancient and Dark Age armies for us to represent all of them within our available budget.

Some compromises have been made in order to get the game (and DLCs) out at all.
I'd like to know why the protection rating of hirdsman as "protected" but huscarl as "armoured"?
Because of the models.You didn't see that?Hirdsmen models are totally no armor and helmets.
I doubt that is the reason they have protected status. It is likely that some men with helm and byrnie vs many without doesn’t justify the leap from protected to armoured. After all, uniformly equipped later hoplites (helm, linothorax and grieves) are “merely” protected as well.

Re: Give the shieldwall unit some helmets like Dailami foot and make hirdsmen armoured?

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:40 pm
by SnuggleBunnies
To be fair, while the hoplites are portrayed uniformly, it's likely that by the Pelopponesian War few hoplites wore body armor at all, with the majority simply equipped with shield, spear, and open faced pylos style helmet. In addition, armor status is not universal but is relative to what else is available at the time - so a Protected unit in 1500 might be wearing a brigandine and steel helmet, while a Protected unit in 400 BC has a shield and bronze helmet.