Fallback and pushback?

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
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kronenblatt
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Fallback and pushback?

Post by kronenblatt » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:22 pm

Could someone please explain the concept of fallback (and in relation to pushback in close combat), for example:

1. What determines whether a foot unit falls back when in close combat?
2. Does it occur only in melee, or also in impact? Does it require the unit to have lost that turn?
3. Is the fallback in fact a pushback, i.e., the enemy unit pushes the unit back, instead of the unit itself actively falling back?
4. Is it different between foot and cavalry/chariots?
5. In which circumstances (such as specific units, situations, etc.) does the enemy unit advance in the the now empty square of the unit? (I don't always like that occurring...)
6. Anything else to keep in mind, tactics and rules wise?

Thanks!
:!: Happy to finally having discovered Field of Glory II! :!:

Ludendorf
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Re: Fallback and pushback?

Post by Ludendorf » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:37 pm

1: I believe this is down to suffering a bad loss. If an infantry unit suffers a bad loss, it will drop back. If it suffers a bad loss against an impact unit or offensive spear/phalanx unit that attacked it first, it will fall back and the impact unit will follow up (a pushback). You're therefore more likely to see it happen where there is a great disparity in combat effectiveness in favour of the pushback-capable foot; think veteran Roman legionaries vs phoenician-style foot compared to raw legionaries vs veteran Italian foot. The phoenicians are very likely to lose badly to the Romans, so they'll get shoved all over the place. The raw legionaries on the other hand would be lucky to even win once against the Italians, and would be unlikely to win decisively and push back. So the first will be relatively stable, and the second unstable. The result of the cohesion check does not affect this.

2: It can happen in melee or impact. Impact is more common due to charge impact POA differences. A possible exception could be pike attacking superior warband, where the warband would have an initial advantage and thus be unlikely to get pushed back, but could lose ground as the melee prolongs.

3: I believe as above that the unit that loses falls back, and the unit behind follows up.

4: Cavalry don't get pushed back. They will also often disengage from infantry even when they have the advantage. Cavalry generally prefer to cycle charge (impact, break off and then impact again) rather than stick around in melee. If they have room to drop back of course.

5: Any time you have impact foot, pikes or offensive spears who have attacked another unit who subsequently drops back from a severe defeat. You have to plan for it; don't throw your pushback-capable units into an attack if their following up would spell disaster.

6: If you see your opponent has reserves waiting to receive units that are pushing through the line, try attacking with your pushback-capable units only where they will push other units up directly against the front of the reserve units. Keep the rest of your impact foot back and show some patience. The reserve units can't move around to get a flank if the unit being driven back has been forced up against them; they will be forced into awkward manoeuvres to get into position, and the rest of your impact units can follow up while the back line is all over the place. With a bit of luck, you'll break through and clear before the flankers behind the line can get into position.

For this reason, if you're defending against impact foot and have left some reserves behind your line for exactly this reason, try to put your more reliable units directly in front of your reserves. They'll tend to fall back more slowly, giving your reserves a chance to rush to the rescue of your lower quality troops before they get shattered completely. For this reason, your reserves should also ideally be manoeuvrable; for example, make your main line out of veteran armoured hoplites and citizen hoplites, but keep the mercenary hoplites (who are manoeuvrable) behind so they can angle themselves to help in a pinch.

kronenblatt
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Re: Fallback and pushback?

Post by kronenblatt » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:39 pm

Ludendorf wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:37 pm
...
Super: many thanks, Ludendorf! There's so many nuances to this game making it so fascinating, and challenging to try to (getting close to) master. :)
:!: Happy to finally having discovered Field of Glory II! :!:

MVP7
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Re: Fallback and pushback?

Post by MVP7 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:10 pm

Here's an additional important detail about push backs from patch 1.5.3:
Push Backs: In order to more closely match the overall distance infantry units get pushed back in the game with accounts of historical battles, Push Backs will be less frequent. Units facing orthogonally (facing a square edge) will only get pushed back every second time they suffer a “lost badly” combat result, starting with the first time they suffer such a result. Units facing diagonally will only get pushed back every third time they suffer a “lost badly” combat result, starting with the second time they suffer such a result. Overall this simulates the unit getting pushed back half a square-side distance each time they suffer a “lost badly” combat result (instead of a whole square-side orthogonally or almost 1.5 square-sides diagonally, as previously).

kronenblatt
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Re: Fallback and pushback?

Post by kronenblatt » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:04 pm

MVP7 wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:10 pm
Here's an additional important detail about push backs from patch 1.5.3:
Push Backs: In order to more closely match the overall distance infantry units get pushed back in the game with accounts of historical battles, Push Backs will be less frequent. Units facing orthogonally (facing a square edge) will only get pushed back every second time they suffer a “lost badly” combat result, starting with the first time they suffer such a result. Units facing diagonally will only get pushed back every third time they suffer a “lost badly” combat result, starting with the second time they suffer such a result. Overall this simulates the unit getting pushed back half a square-side distance each time they suffer a “lost badly” combat result (instead of a whole square-side orthogonally or almost 1.5 square-sides diagonally, as previously).
Many thanks, MVP7: that's really good to know.
:!: Happy to finally having discovered Field of Glory II! :!:

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