The West is No More (476 AD): general thread

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The West is No More (476 AD): general thread

Post by kronenblatt » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:45 pm

"... The helpless Augustulus, who could no longer command the respect, was reduced to implore the clemency, of Odoacer... Their military acclamations saluted him with the title of king, but he abstained during his whole reign from the use of the purple and diadem... Odoacer was the first barbarian who reigned in Italy, over a people who had once asserted their just superiority above the rest of mankind..."

(The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon)

It will involve representing the major factions of East Rome, Visigoths, Italy (Odoacer), Vandals, Franks, Alamans, Burgundians, Gepids, Ostrogoths, Soissons (Syagrius), Suevians, and last but not least West Rome (Julius Nepos) for up to 12 players. It will also include minor factions (Anglo-Saxons, Hibernians, Lombards, etc.) that the players can attempt to annex to get access to allies but with the risk of raids or revolts, and larger foreign factions (Persia, Huns, Sabirs) that pose a constant threat of foreign invasion and on whom players can conduct punitive expeditions. Other aspects will cover the opportunity to form coalitions (á la Dividing the Spoils) among players to combat those other players having become too powerful for "their own good". Emphasis and focus will however always be with the actual FoG2 battles, of course!

The 12-player tournament, with each player representing one and the same major faction throughout the tournament, didn't materialise since we failed in the end to get all signed-up players confirm their participation.

Instead another version of TWiNM tournament will be launched, similar to the original version in all respects except that it will involve a major faction rotation system. This means that players will at certain points during the tournament select new major factions to represent, such certain points being when at least one C-in-C of a major faction falls in battle. This version hopefully also works better with fewer players than the original version, so the tournament will be run with a limited number of players (we're currently 5) in order to try out the rules and the mechanics. Its progress will, once launched, be posted here, in this forum as usual. :)

TheWestIsNoMoreNumberedGrey_SubProvinces_ThickBorders_POLITICAL.png
TheWestIsNoMoreNumberedGrey_SubProvinces_ThickBorders_POLITICAL.png (54.31 KiB) Viewed 190 times
Last edited by kronenblatt on Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:39 pm, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by TomoeGozen » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:02 pm

Hi,
As you can probably guess I'm interested as long as I don't have too many digital league games still outstanding when it starts. I've not had much time to look at the stuff you sent but it certainly looks good.
I realise that it will be difficult to get enough people interested and keep them interested to fill all of the available factions but I think it is worth sticking it out to try as I feel it would be so much better if each player has a single faction.
Because some of the factions only have a single territory maybe if they are defeated quickly(in the first 3 turns?) they can become a vassal of the conquering faction and thus continue playing a subsidiary role in some way? I thought that maybe a vassal could rebel later and once again become independent if they manage to, for example , out score (by difference in battle results) their ruling faction in 2 successive battles , thus gaining the confidence and the support to rebel. If they don't manage to outscore their ruler in the next 2 battles then they are finally absorbed in to the rulers faction. Just thinking aloud here. It gives those players starting with small factions a chance to play a few more games if things go wrong. Do you think this would make things carry on too long?
The smaller factions can obviously also form alliances as per the Dividing the spoils event and attack the large factions in 'groups' I assume?
cheers,
Dave.

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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by kronenblatt » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:28 pm

TomoeGozen wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:02 pm
Hi,
As you can probably guess I'm interested as long as I don't have too many digital league games still outstanding when it starts. I've not had much time to look at the stuff you sent but it certainly looks good.
I realise that it will be difficult to get enough people interested and keep them interested to fill all of the available factions but I think it is worth sticking it out to try as I feel it would be so much better if each player has a single faction.
Because some of the factions only have a single territory maybe if they are defeated quickly(in the first 3 turns?) they can become a vassal of the conquering faction and thus continue playing a subsidiary role in some way? I thought that maybe a vassal could rebel later and once again become independent if they manage to, for example , out score (by difference in battle results) their ruling faction in 2 successive battles , thus gaining the confidence and the support to rebel. If they don't manage to outscore their ruler in the next 2 battles then they are finally absorbed in to the rulers faction. Just thinking aloud here. It gives those players starting with small factions a chance to play a few more games if things go wrong. Do you think this would make things carry on too long?
The smaller factions can obviously also form alliances as per the Dividing the spoils event and attack the large factions in 'groups' I assume?
cheers,
Dave.
Thanks, Dave: That's a really cool feature with players' major factions being vassals to other players' major factions! And with the opportunity under certain circumstances (which?) to break free. Maybe the vassal-overlord relationship could work as an involuntary "coalition" (with the vassal providing aid to its overlord as a separate battle in attacks), or alternatively (and simpler) the overlord could simply decide to bring the vassal's army list as ally to battles. And if the vassal hasn't become independent in say 4-5 turns or if it fails to break free in a revolt, it will ultimately be absorbed into the overlord's major faction.
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:02 pm

What would the army lists be?
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by kronenblatt » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:51 am

SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:02 pm
What would the army lists be?
Major factions ((represented by players)
East Rome: Byzantine 493-550 AD
Visigoths: Visigothic 419-621 AD
Italy (Odoacer): Roman 425-492 AD with Germanic Foot Tribes 260-599 AD allies
Vandals: Vandal 442-499 AD (EDIT) with Moorish 350-698 AD allies
Franks: Frankish 496-599 AD
Alamans: Germanic Foot Tribes 260-599 AD with Germanic Horse Tribes 260-492 AD allies
Burgundians: Germanic Horse Tribes 260-492 AD with Germanic Foot Tribes 260-599 AD allies
Gepids: Gepid 493-567 AD
Ostrogoths: Ostrogothic 493-561 AD
Soissons (Syagrius): Kingdom of Soissons 461-486 AD
Suevians: Germanic Foot Tribes 260-599 AD with Alan 25-650 AD allies
West Rome (Julius Nepos): Roman 425-492 AD

Minor factions (can conduct raids, be annexed and thus provide allies, and revolt for freedom while annexed, as instigated by players)
Anglo-Saxons: Anglo-Saxon 449-599 AD
Hibernians: Scots-Irish 477-899 AD
Picts: Pictish 477-850 AD
Romano-British: Romano-British 407-599 AD
Moors: Moorish 350-698 AD
Libyans: Moorish 350-698 AD
Arabs: Arab (Bedouin) 300-636 AD
Lombards: Lombard 493-567 AD

Foreign factions (can conduct foreign invasions, as as instigated by players)
Huns: Hunnic (Western) 455-559 AD
Sabirs: Hunnic (Sabir) 463-558 AD
Persia: Sassanid Persian 477-590 AD


EDIT: Vandals will now have Moorish 350-698 AD allies.

Thoughts and reflections, SnuggleBunnies?
Last edited by kronenblatt on Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:35 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by Captainwaltersavage » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:27 am

I should have time for this later in the Autumn. How could I refuse playing the Visigoths? Count me in for sure. Is this with standard army lists or TT mod lists?

I'll try any faction that's on offer.

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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by kronenblatt » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:50 am

Captainwaltersavage wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:27 am
I should have time for this later in the Autumn. How could I refuse playing the Visigoths? Count me in for sure. Is this with standard army lists or TT mod lists?

I'll try any faction that's on offer.
Thanks, Captain! Standard army lists. And I set you up as the Visigoths then. :)
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:41 pm

Looks great. I'll play as anyone but the Vandals, they're just not my thing. In fact, they might not be anyone's thing tbh.
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by kronenblatt » Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:19 pm

SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:41 pm
Looks great. I'll play as anyone but the Vandals, they're just not my thing. In fact, they might not be anyone's thing tbh.
Welcome! I'll put you up as "anyone but the Vandals"... :) Probably I'll be the one ending up playing the Vandals.
SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:41 pm
Vandal are just not my thing. In fact, they might not be anyone's thing tbh.
EDIT: How about adding Moorish allies to the Vandals: does that make them better or worse? Or just different?
Last edited by kronenblatt on Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by pompeytheflatulent » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:20 pm

How do the minor factions work? Can I play as one of them?

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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by kronenblatt » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:58 pm

pompeytheflatulent wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:20 pm
How do the minor factions work? Can I play as one of them?
Each minor faction is linked to a specific province (XXII-XXIX)*, from where they (except for the peaceful Romano-British) can raid neighbour provinces controlled by major factions. These raids are initiated by other players as part of their declarations, who will also fight the corresponding battles as the minor faction. Players' major factions can also attempt to attack a minor faction in order to gain control of a minor faction's province in order to eliminate the raid threat and to use the minor faction as allies. Another player will then play the minor faction in that battle. But when controlling a minor faction's province, other players can initiate revolts by the minor faction in order for the major faction to lose control over the province. The player initiating the revolt will then play the minor faction in the battle.

XXII Anglia: Anglo-Saxons
XXIII Hibernia: Hibernians
XXIV Caledonia: Picts
XXV Britannia: Romano-British
XXVI Mauretania: Moors
XXVII Libya: Libyans
XXVIII Arabia: Arabs
XXIX Germania: Lombards

So to sum up: you can sometimes play as a minor faction if you want and take that action, but not always (same goes for the foreign factions of Huns, Sabirs, and Persia, by the way).
As a player you'll represent a major faction (one or more) and primarily play as that one (or those).
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by Aetius39 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:51 pm

Hi,

I'll join as West Rome (Julius Nepos)

May I suggest changing some of the shades of (purple?) or whatever they are to colors a bit more separate? Some colorblind guys have a bit hard time distinguishing them.^^

Aetius

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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by kronenblatt » Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:23 pm

Aetius39 wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:51 pm
Hi,

I'll join as West Rome (Julius Nepos)

May I suggest changing some of the shades of (purple?) or whatever they are to colors a bit more separate? Some colorblind guys have a bit hard time distinguishing them.^^

Aetius
Nepos is all yours, Aetius. See if you can make a winner out of a historical loser. ;)

Regarding colours: every player will get to freely choose their own RGB code colour for the map. :)
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by Aetius39 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:44 pm

"Nepos is all yours, Aetius. See if you can make a winner out of a historical loser."

That's the idea!

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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by pompeytheflatulent » Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:08 pm

Put me down as the Burgundians please.

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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by kronenblatt » Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:44 pm

Regarding the RGB colors, they can be tried out here or here and in many other places (or in Excel for that matter).

Please just keep in mind that:
- at least one of the three values has to be 100 or higher, and
- at least one (which could be the same as the one mentioned earlier) has to be 200 or lower.

Thus the extreme values are 0,0,100 and 255,255,200 (in any order between R,G, and B).
Last edited by kronenblatt on Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by kronenblatt » Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:44 pm

pompeytheflatulent wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:08 pm
Put me down as the Burgundians please.
Of course, pompey: welcome! RGB?
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by TomoeGozen » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:14 pm

Go on then , seeing as everyone is choosing , I'll take the Vandals :-)

and I'll go crazy and pick a colour :-)
R=223
G=168
B=15

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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by kronenblatt » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:23 pm

TomoeGozen wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:14 pm
Go on then , seeing as everyone is choosing , I'll take the Vandals :-)

and I'll go crazy and pick a colour :-)
R=223
G=168
B=15
Excellent, that's my man: you also get the Moorish allies now, for free without having to conquer either Mauretania or Libya. The downside is that they are compulsory.

And nice golden colour. :)
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Re: The West is No More - a 476 AD tournament idea!

Post by olin0111 » Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:27 pm

I would be interested to try the Kingdom of Soissons and see if I can send Franks packing! (proposed RGB: 214 47 47)

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