Vae Victis II - First Punic War: Concluded

[TomoeGozen]

I tend to agree with Aetius that ZOCs should affect retreats, but maybe not movement.

I think I agree with this too

[kronenblatt]

Discuss within your factions and among your team members how to allocate your 8 Initiative points (1 for each army), and then submit the allocation of Initiative points for your armies through sending me a PM by Friday, October 15, at the latest. One PM representing the whole faction, or each of you individually; both are ok, but please note that individual instructions will take precedence.

I won't open any of your PMs (other than my team members') until I have received from everyone and until I have published those of myself and all my team members in a PM to all participants or in the campaign thread. (Your PM's will thus stay in your Outbox until I open them, and to my knowledge that should be safe from me secretly reading it.)

And... don't worry: we'll all hold each other's hands to get to know and understand the rules, etc., together. This is for fun, after all!

Questions? Ask them here, in the campaign thread, for everyone to see the question and the answer.


From the rules (Initiative points and Navies)

Initiative points serve the purpose of allowing the factions a certain focus that round. Armies possess one Initiative point each, which can be assigned to two different uses:

1. Increase its strength by 40 FP, up to but not exceeding 1600 FP, in all the army's engagements that round.
2. Improve the faction's naval dominance in a particular sea zone, allowing for more and longer naval movements of its faction's navies that round (for details and limitations, see Naval superiority under the Navies section).

If no explicit instruction is given for an army during the order giving phase of a round, the army is assumed to have selected option 1 above for that round.

Please note that: A faction can in total not assign more Influence points to a sea zone than 1 times (for Roma) and 2 times (for Carthago, to compensate for its fewer Towns and Cities) the number of controlled unbesieged and unblockaded Towns and Cities adjacent to a Coast hex in that sea zone. Thus, if a faction controls no such Coast Towns or Cities in a sea zone, it cannot assign any Influence points at all to that sea zone.

The faction's Naval Superiority level in each sea zone equals 2; plus the faction's number of assigned Influence points to the sea zone; minus the highest number of Influence points that another faction has assigned to that sea zone, the sum always subject to a floor of zero.

Each Naval Superiority point of a faction in a sea zone gives the faction 24 naval movement points (NMP) to be shared by all navies of a faction moving in that sea zone.

[kronenblatt]

Taking inspiration from your input on navies and their effect on land, the following changes to rules will apply with effect from next round (8):

• The ZoC of Navies is 1 hex around location for all hexes (land, Coastal, and Sea).

• The Town or City in which an army becomes a navy must be unblockaded and unsieged.

• Armies moving away from a drawn battle can not move within the ZoC of any army or navy from another faction.

• Armies moving into a land hex that is within the ZoC of a navy from another faction will have to pay an additional +1 MP cost for doing so (added last, after all other adjustments). (Thus, navies will slow down army movement, but not completely stop it.)

[deeter]

These changes sound good.

Deeter

[kronenblatt]

• Carthaginian army 2: 1

• Carthaginian army 4: 1

• Carthaginian army 8: 1

[kronenblatt]

These changes sound good.

Deeter

Great!

[kronenblatt]

Time has come for round 7's movement instructions, for land as well as naval movement (excluding navies' debarkation of armies into land hexes, but please save enough naval movement points for that in case you want to debark this round).

Please send me your instructions through replying to the PM you received from me, and just as a simple sequence of individual moves (e.g., 2 4 2 6 0 6), with no other symbols in between, only blanks (for easy copy-pasting by the administrator). For details, please check Giving orders, Movement, and Naval movement in the RULES.

Please all do so by Wednesday, October 20, midnight (your time) at the latest.

As mentioned earlier, I will not open any of your PMs (other than my Roman team members') until I have received such PMs from everyone and until I have published those of myself and all my team members in a PM to all participants or in this thread.

Any questions? Please ask them here, in the tournament thread, for everyone else to see the question itself and its answer.

Still don't worry: we'll all hold each other's hands to get to know and understand the rules, etc., together. This is for fun, after all!

[kronenblatt]

Some comments

• Armies 6 and 14 both move into Tyndaris, but since the cost of the latter army for moving into that hex (2 MP versus 3 MP of army 6), army 14 gets to make the move and army 6 doesn't.

• Army 9 doesn't have enough MP to make its entire move.

[kronenblatt]

So we have our first naval battles, two of them actually!

• Naval battle 1: Carthaginian navy 1 versus Roman navy 15.

• Naval battle 2: Carthaginian navy 3 versus Roman navy 12.

I'm trying here to be as pedagogical as possible when following the rules.

Random numbers (luckily we've got 4 of them...)
8 4 6 2
"Random numbers are applied in the order that the navies are numbered, e.g., navy #1 (if applicable) gets the first random number, the navy with the second lowest number gets the second random number, etc."

• Carthaginian navy 1: 8

• Carthaginian navy 3: 4

• Roman navy 12: 6

• Roman navy 15: 2

Naval Battle Strength

• Carthaginian navy 1: random number of 8 plus Carthaginian Naval Superiority of 0 in Mare Tyrrhenum = 8 + 0 = 8

• Carthaginian navy 3: random number of 4 plus Carthaginian Naval Superiority of 2 in Mare Tuscum = 4 + 2 = 6

• Roman navy 12: random number of 6 plus Roman Naval Superiority of 2 in Mare Tuscum = 6 + 2 = 8

• Roman navy 15: random number of 2 plus Roman Naval Superiority of 4 in Mare Tyrrhenum = 2 + 4 = 6

Outcomes of Naval Battles
"The Roman faction's Naval Battle Strength is deducted from the Carthaginian faction's Naval Battle Strength, the difference determining the outcome of that naval battle."

• Naval battle 1: Carthaginian navy 1 versus Roman navy 15 = 8 - 6 = +2 => draw => both armies will retreat one hex away from their enemy.

• Naval battle 2: Carthaginian navy 3 versus Roman navy 12 = 6 - 8 = -2 => draw => both armies will retreat one hex away from their enemy.

Thoughts on the rules, etc.? Should the interval for draw be much tighter, like -1 to +1 instead? Or is it ok to keep at -2 to +2? For example.

[kronenblatt]

We have four engagements (in two separate battles) to be concluded this round!

Battle 1:

• Engagement 1.1. deeter (Carthaginian army #2, 1551 FP (1511 + 40 from Initiative point)) versus dim30 (Roman army #10, 1602 FP (1572 + 30 from Town)).
  • Mediterranean Hilly.
  • dim30 sets up.

• Engagement 1.2. batesmotel (Carthaginian army #4, 1575 FP (1535 + 40 from Initiative point)) versus dim30 (Roman army #10, 1602 FP (1572 + 30 from Town)).
  • Mediterranean Hilly.
  • dim30 sets up.

• Engagement 1.3. Challenge1 (Carthaginian army #7, 1600 FP) versus dim30 (Roman army #10, 1602 FP (1572 + 30 from Town)).
  • Mediterranean Hilly.
  • dim30 sets up.

Battle 2:

• Engagement 2.1. TomoeGozen (Carthaginian army #6, 1497 FP) versus kronenblatt (Roman army #14, 1589 FP (1559 + 30 from Town)).
  • Mediterranean Hilly.
  • TomoeGozen sets up.

The engagements to be set up as follows:

• Base game armies, i.e., Carthaginian 262-236 BC versus Roman 280-220 BC. (Not TT Mod anymore.)

• Open Battle scenario.

• Large (40 x 32) map size.

• Allies can be selected if allowed in accordance with Allies in engagements in rules.

• No map re-rolls.

• The player creating the challenge (with himself always as Side B) does so by October 23 at the latest, thereafter sending a PM to the opponent and making a post in the tournament thread.

Conclusion and reporting of engagements:

• Players commit to concluding their games by November 20 at the latest.

• The winner, or the player having incurred the fewest casualties, report the results in this thread.

Regarding allies:

• Only Carthaginian armies 2 and 7 are allowed to use Numidian or Moorish 341-56 BC as allies, since they began the round not more than 6 MP distance of their factions' lines of logistics. Please advise ASAP to the player setting up if you're using allies.

[dim30]

Hi.
Our 3 engagements for Enna are setup !
Wine is good and houses very comfortable in Enna, I understand that you want to retake it.

pw : dim30

[TomoeGozen]

Engagement 2.1. TomoeGozen (Carthaginian army #6, 1497 FP) versus kronenblatt (Roman army #14, 1589 FP (1559 + 30 from Town))

Challenge created and PM sent.

[deeter]

There seems to be some misunderstanding. There's nothing to retake. Your Air BnB rental is up and we're just here to help you pack. Glad you enjoyed the accommodations though. Be sure to leave us a good rating. : ) Oh yeah, challenge accepted.

Deeter

[kronenblatt]

Engagement 2.1. TomoeGozen (Carthaginian army #6, 1497 FP) versus kronenblatt (Roman army #14, 1589 FP (1559 + 30 from Town))

Challenge created and PM sent.

Thanks! Away from home and computer so will pick it up on Sunday evening or Monday.

[batesmotel]

As a rules question, what happens after a drawn battle if an army is unable to retreat 2 hexes due to enemy zones of control, terrain, etc?

Chris

[kronenblatt]

As a rules question, what happens after a drawn battle if an army is unable to retreat 2 hexes due to enemy zones of control, terrain, etc?

Chris

I guess you're having the Great Battle at Enna in mind?

What would objectively make sense, in your mind? And in the objective minds of you other guys? (Always ignoring our respective stakes in the current situation, of course. Next time the sides may be swapped... )

So that we create and implement a rule that will be balanced and work going forward.

[dim30]

Difficult to say for me...
The present rule have the advantage to be simple. And with the increased losses from the new rules for draw, ( double damage) I think that an army trapped in bad situation will suffer major damage and be ineffective for some turns.

Interesting campaign but after a lot's of battle with always the same army it could be a little boring... Sorry for my opponents if I have play in a defensive way but strategical situation command me.

[kronenblatt]

Engagement 2.1. TomoeGozen (Carthaginian army #6, 1497 FP) versus kronenblatt (Roman army #14, 1589 FP (1559 + 30 from Town)).
=> kronenblatt defeats TomoeGozen 52-23.

[dim30]

Engagement 1-1
deeter (Carthaginian army #2, 1551 FP (1511 + 40 from Initiative point)) versus dim30 (Roman army #10, 1602 FP (1572 + 30 from Town))

Roman victory ! dim30 beat deeter. 30- 57

In a pure Carthaginian spirit, the Carthaginian made an all out attack to retake the city of Enna. Being engaged by 3 armies the roman take at first a defensive stance. After a lot's of move the Carthaginian army was perfectly arrayed to give assault. As often in several battle the skirmisher fight create a little chaos in both lines. Having secured their flanc by difficult ground Romans superior infantry win the day by crushing their opponent.

Thank for the game Deeter. Always a pleasure to play with you. I hope we will have a normal game in normal map soon.

[dim30]

Engagement 1.2.
batesmotel (Carthaginian army #4, 1575 FP (1535 + 40 from Initiative point)) versus dim30 (Roman army #10, 1602 FP (1572 + 30 from Town))

Roman victory. Dim30 beat Batesmotel 33-61 %

A big battle. Another initial defensive stance by the roman army. Carthaginian was eager to retake Enna. After an good movement period and skirmish battle, the Carthaginian army looked somewhat splitted in 2, so this allowed romans to counterattack. A legion will have a dedicated mausoleum in Roma for their fighting spirit, in holding back Carthaginian assaults for several turns.
Friendly and interesting game with an hard and serious opponent.