The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

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pantherboy
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The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by pantherboy »

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
~~~ East versus West – Season One ~~~


Image

“Attack is the secret of defense; defense is the planning of an attack.” --- Sun Tzu, The Art of War


Welcome to a reimagining of the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (LEOG). With the culmination of the Digital League and the tremendous efforts made by Pete and his assistants I have decided to raise the banner of the precursor to all once again. Back in the original FOG days when combat resolved around a simple six-sided die I started the league as an opportunity to bring players together in friendly competition and as a way of promoting better play and sustenance for a game I truly enjoyed. The original format involved playing historical scenarios selected specifically to challenge players using a variety of lists. This continued for a couple of seasons and saw the player base grow and the desire for something more formal and ranked to appear. With this in mind the first official season incorporating player selected army lists was added and then over time separated into divisions of ranked players within historical periods until finally seeing the advent of a themed section and a purely open section. When I stepped away at the end of the sixth season the League continued for a final seventh season before morphing into the original Digital League and finally being overhauled for the launch of FOG2. Since then Pete has nurtured the Digital League through 12 seasons and has decided to end on a high note. Already Eric has started rallying support for a new FOG2 League centered around a communal effort which will likely model the tried and tested format all are use to. With this all in mind LEOG will use a hybrid of league play and what I setup for the Caracole tournaments for Pike & Shot. Initially I'm looking to run just two periods, Early Classical Antiquity and Late Middle Ages, with the goal of ironing out any teething issues. I hope enough interest will be shown to bring this all to fruition and as such I look forward to gaming with as many of you as possible.

Cheers,

Steve (aka pantherboy)


1. Overview

Each period for LOEG will be played over three rounds with 32 players. Each period will be divided into two conferences, East and West, consisting of 16 players apiece. Players will be required to select either an eastern or western army as defined by geography and join other players with alike lists. In the first round players will then be allocated to pods of 4 players wherein they will play the other pod members with their selected list. Once scoring is completed the top player from each pod will enter a second round pod of first placed players while the second placed player will join other second placed players and so on with third and fourth. Scoring for the second round will be independent of the first round and final standings will determine overall ladder position from 1 to 16. The third round will see east and west clash with like ranked players competing to create a final ranking of 1 to 32 and whether their conference wins overall. This will require each player to finish 7 matches with everyone's final match of being of equal importance towards the ultimate conference win. Players then will receive an ELO rating based on their performance for future first round pod allocations and a tally of matches won/lost plus whether they were in a winning conference to keep track of their performance.


2. East and West Conferences: Joining & Selecting an Army

Early Classical Antiquity (500BC to 0AD) and Late Middle Ages (1200 to 1500AD) will both be divided into an East and West conference with eastern armies covering African, Middle Eastern and Asian lists while western armies will be drawn from European lists. To participate in Early Classical Antiquity players will need to have both the base game and the Immortal Fire DLC while Late Middle Ages will require the base game of FOG2 Medieval, the Reconquista DLC and Swords and Scimitars DLC.

For each league a player is required to select a specific army list and whether they have selected allies (e.g. Armenian 331 BC-252 AD w/no allies) and post it to the appropriate thread for their League (e.g. LOEG Recruitment – Early Classical Antiquity). The actual recruitment thread will have an exhaustive list of available armies that you will be able to reference against. For this initial season everyone will be allowed their first pick.

Recruitment will be limited to the first 32 players interested for each period. A reserve list will be started if interest goes beyond 32 and if we reach 64 then I will take into consideration the formation of two divisions within each league. Also please restrict entry to just one period initially to allow as many players as possible to participate. After a certain cut off date for initial recruitment I will allow entry into the other period for players interested in playing in both.


3. Round One

Players will be allocated to four different pods (A to D) each with four slots within their conference. The four highest ranked players, based on their performance in the Digital League, will take the first slot in different pods with the fifth to eighth taking the second slot and so on. This will ensure a more varied range of opponents allowing players to earn experience fighting veteran players.

Round one will involve fighting three matches once versus each opponent in their pod. The round will officially last for 3 weeks with any incomplete matches being judged based on my discretion. Your final ranking in the pod will be used for seeding in the second round.


4. Round Two

In round two players will progress into a new four-player pod based on their ranking in the first round. The round one highest scorer of each pod will enter Pod “A”, the second highest scorer Pod “B” and so forth. Players will then fight three further matches with the rounds scoring being independent of the first. As before the round will last three weeks.

At the conclusion of round two final standings will be tallied and players will be ranked from 1 to 16 based upon their score in the second round with Pod "A" players taking positions 1 to 4, Pod "B" positions 5 to 8 and so on.


5. Round Three

The third and final round will involve just a single match pitting like ranked players from each conference with the winner being ranked one above the loser (e.g. Rank 1 players will take final positions 1 & 2, rank 2 players positions 3 & 4, and so on). The final round will also serve to calculate the winning conference by summing all the match scores which will mean every players contribution will hold equal importance whether playing at the top of the ladder or the bottom. I'm hoping in this way everyone will remain engaged in the tournament to the end. This final round will have two weeks allotted.


6. Battle Parameters & Setting Up Games

There will be a thread for posting challenges in addition to the requirement to send a private mail to your opponent. Players will be free to set up the challenges in any order as they wish. The only requirement will be that everyone needs to have each match set up by the end of the first week. You are not required to be playing them but they do need to be created. From my experience once matches have been set up players are more likely to get them completed in time even if it is doing a turn every few days.

Matches are to be set up using the following parameters:

Pick Side A Army: <Your List>
Own Allies: <Your Allies>
Pick Side B Army: <Opponents List>
Own Allies: <Opponents Allies>
Scenario Type: Open Battle
Force Size: Medium
Map Size: Medium
Map Type: Pot Luck
Force Selection: Player

Note – Advance settings must be left on default!
Note – Include a password
Note – It can be helpful to include a comment like “Challenge for Player A”


7. Map Re-rolls

Players are permitted an unlimited number of map re-rolls to find a map suitable for a match. After setting up a game if you are unsatisfied with the map ask your opponent if they would mind re-rolling the map. If they agree then feel free to setup the next match using any terrain type that you and your opponent agree too otherwise default to random e.g. you both want an open battlefield so opt to use middle east agricultural. If one player opts to keep the map that has been generated than the onus is on them to move forward and engage in battle. If they are unwilling than they must accept a re-roll. My goal is to give players flexibility in setting up their matches and to minimize no contest results. One last point players are permitted to restart their match after any number of turns (mainly due to a stalemated position evolving) though this requires the consensus of both players and no player should feel forced to oblige and it will not be considered a poor reflection upon them. This last point is simply to afford an avenue for both players if neither feel satisfied with a no contest result.


8. Scoring

Scoring will be based upon the break level and by how close the battle was. The narrower the margin between players will result in scores rather close while an early decisive win will be wider.

Win: 60 + (enemy break% - winner break %)
Draw or Loss: (enemy break %)

Example:
pantherboy (Romans) (61%) vs CheAhn (Carthage) (48%)
pantherboy (48%) = 48pts
CheAhn 60 + (61% - 48%) = 73pts


9. Reporting Games

Reporting results will be incumbent on the player who won the battle. They will be required to log into the Slitherine Forum and post the result publicly on the appropriate thread (e.g. Late Antiquity Eastern Conference Results). Results posted should be reported in the following format;

Pod (A/B/C etc.)
Player ID (army) (Army Break %) score vs Player ID (army) (Army Break %) score

Example:
Pod A
pantherboy (Romans) (61%) 48pts vs CheAhn (Carthage) (48%) 73pts


10. Absent Players & Neglected Turns

For ease of management if you wish to quit LEOG or won't have time to finish your matches then please notify me. An explanation isn't required. The purpose is to allow me to delete you from the tournament and allow a reserve player to take your spot. Results from completed rounds will stand so in the advent a player takes over in the second round they will be required to play in the Pod that the leaving player qualified for. Since the first two rounds only require 3 matches to complete I'm hoping that finding a replacement will not prove too difficult.


11. ELO Ratings & Player Performance

Players will initially begin with a rating of 1000. At the end of each season player ELO ratings will be calculated via tournament play so that everyone's pre-tournament rating will be used for each of their seven matches. This will result in a new post-tournament rating to be used for future first round pod placements. In addition player performance will be tracked over a range of categories as of yet to be decided.


12. Timeline

Recruitment will commence on December 20 with entry to both periods from January 1.
Round One will commence on January 8 and finish on January 28.
Round Two will commence on January 29 and finish on February 18.
Round Three will commence on February 19 and finish on March 5.

Games must be completed within the stated ranges though extensions may be granted on a case by case basis if they do not significantly interfere with the tournament.


13. Comments & Suggestions

Below this post feel free to add any comments or suggestions. If you have any queries regarding any of my decisions then feel free to ask and then I'll attempt to shed some light on the old cognitive processes.
Last edited by pantherboy on Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
stockwellpete
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by stockwellpete »

The return of LOEG!! Fabulous. :D

I really like the east-west division being proposed here. The physical geography of Europe and Asia has obviously had a massive impact on human warfare from the ancient period onwards. The steppes and the Central European plain were more conducive to horse armies, while western Europe had a much different topography that led to smaller states, using fortifications and a completely different type of warfare. To see this modelled in the new format LOEG tournament will be really interesting and will substantially avoid one of the weaknesses of the DL, whereby foot armies were sometimes matched unsatisfactorily with horse armies to the frustration of both players.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by kronenblatt »

Sounds very well thought through and structured: looking forward to seeing which armies go into West and which into East. I'd be interested in joining the Early Classical Antiquity period.

Regarding the scoring, maybe it would be simpler and more straightforward to not divide it all by 10 but instead just keep the original break percentages?

Win: 60 + (enemy break % - winner break %)
Draw or Loss: enemy break %

Example:
pantherboy (Romans) (61%) vs CheAhn (Carthage) (48%)
pantherboy = 48pts
CheAhn 60 + (61 - 48) = 73pts
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by carpenkm »

Sounds like a great idea and i'm sure will be popular. Might need a little longer for the rounds though if someone is away for a week etc. I will join this
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by LuciusSulla »

Sounds interesting. So Carthage will be considered as an east nation because it is based in Africa? But perhaps Hannibal in Italy is then a west army list?


Another question re the ELO calculation, is it only based on the win-loss-draw status of each game but the actual points earned would be irrelevant?
Slitherine has been teasing us with an ELO rating system when checking players' status in the automated tournaments for so long but never implemented anything. Good to see it been implemented somewhere and hopefully one day we could have a unified ELO system for all "certified" tournaments and games, preferably automated in some way by Slitherine.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by stockwellpete »

kronenblatt wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:10 pm Sounds very well thought through and structured: looking forward to seeing which armies go into West and which into East. I'd be interested in joining the Early Classical Antiquity period.

Regarding the scoring, maybe it would be simpler and more straightforward to not divide it all by 10 but instead just keep the original break percentages?

Win: 60 + (enemy break % - winner break %)
Draw or Loss: enemy break %

Example:
pantherboy (Romans) (61%) vs CheAhn (Carthage) (48%)
pantherboy = 48pts
CheAhn 60 + (61 - 48) = 73pts
Yes, I think this might be better too. :wink:
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by tyronec »

Players will be allocated to four different pods (A to D) each with four slots within their conference. The four highest ranked players, based on their performance in the Digital League, will take the first slot in different pods with the fifth to eighth taking the second slot and so on. This will ensure a more varied range of opponents allowing players to earn experience fighting veteran players.
Looks good, will very likely enter.
For me this is the one negative, it means in round one it is probably most often between just two players for the qualifying spot and the other two games could well be mismatches. We kind of already have a lot of that in the Swiss tournaments with one player getting slaughtered and the other having an easy win, except in that competition every percentage point of the score matters which I think would often not be the case here. For me it was the ranking of the divisions that was a big plus in the DL, there were a lot more competitive battles and if there was the occasional mismatch it was often as much to do with the maproll as anything else. Any game in the DL - make a couple of mistakes and the game could slip from your grasp, that is what makes a competition game exciting.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by stockwellpete »

tyronec wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:33 am For me this is the one negative, it means in round one it is probably most often between just two players for the qualifying spot and the other two games could well be mismatches. We kind of already have a lot of that in the Swiss tournaments with one player getting slaughtered and the other having an easy win, except in that competition every percentage point of the score matters which I think would often not be the case here. For me it was the ranking of the divisions that was a big plus in the DL, there were a lot more competitive battles and if there was the occasional mismatch it was often as much to do with the maproll as anything else. Any game in the DL - make a couple of mistakes and the game could slip from your grasp, that is what makes a competition game exciting.
Wouldn't that be just a first tournament issue though, T? If you look at Steve's Rule 10, he is clearly signposting the development of an ongoing rating system for subsequent tournaments. :wink:
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by devoncop »

I agree with tyronec re balance in small pools.

It was only in the last season that I entered the DL Themed event for this reason, and on entering there were evidently two players who stood head and shoulders above myself and another guy which basically meant the contest was over before it started in the section we were in.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by pantherboy »

Time for Replies

Pete:

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Yeah, I'm kind of keen to see how the third round will turn out and whether one side will dominate or not though which conference players join may unduly influence said outcome. Also thanks for updating player rankings for season 12 of the digital league as that will allow me to seed players before ELO kicks in.

kronenblatt:

Thanks for the interest. You are right and I'll eliminate the divide by 10. In Caracole, for Pike & Shot, I used that formula and then Slitherine adopted it for their online tournaments and they did exactly as you said moving to whole numbers. I forgot about that so thanks for bringing it to my attention.

carpenkm:

You may possibly be right. I've factored in a week for each match but it might be better to add a fourth one as a safety net. I intend posting a poll to gauge certain parameters and the duration for each round may be a good one to ask. Also thanks for wanting to play.

LuciusSulla:

Your bang on. Hannibal in Italy will be appearing amongst the western armies while the other Carthaginian lists will be for the east. I'm happy it has caught your interest. As for ELO it's based purely off win-loss-draw while the actual points earned in a round contribute to your pod performance and in the third round only influences the east vs west conference standings. In the situation that two players tie in the third round then the points they earned in the second round will act as a tie breaker possibly going to the first round's score in the unlikely event of a tie again.

tyronec:

I'd really appreciate your entry. CheAhn, my brother Nik, had only words of praise for your performance in High Middle Ages so I was going to switch from Biblical to HMA for the 13th season as there were so many strong players in Division A. Yeah I do see your concern about playing lower ranked players but I've always had a different take on that. To improve the level of play it sometimes is good for less experienced players to cut their teeth on a tough opponent and possibly come away with some new tricks. In the structure I'm putting forth only the first round will probably see you matched versus potentially weaker opponents as the second round pod will include only the winners if progressing to the top. The third round should see you facing a tough opponent especially in the top spot. At the moment the calculation is based on 32 players but if interest reached levels similar to Pete's digital league than two divisions of 32 players would exist and as Pete pointed out ELO would start weighing in heavily. The top 32 players ranked by ELO would form the "A" division with the other 32 forming "B". This would tighten up the competition in the first round seeing possibly two strong players in a pod from outset. Also by having 32 players competing together in a division a greater variance will occur in standings and will pave the way for lower ranked players to act as dark horses and create upsets. But as I mentioned earlier this is a kind of trial run and may need kinks to be ironed out.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by stockwellpete »

pantherboy wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:08 am Time for Replies

Pete:

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Yeah, I'm kind of keen to see how the third round will turn out and whether one side will dominate or not though which conference players join may unduly influence said outcome. Also thanks for updating player rankings for season 12 of the digital league as that will allow me to seed players before ELO kicks in.
Anders is saying that the last FOG2DL ratings will be ready on Tuesday so the timing for that is good. Do you want me to put a re-direct post in the FOG2DL forum once you have opened up your recruitment threads? There are bound to be players turning up in that forum for a while yet.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by pantherboy »

That would be most appreciated Pete. Any assistance in filling out the roster would be great.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by pantherboy »

devoncop wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 8:45 am I agree with tyronec re balance in small pools.

It was only in the last season that I entered the DL Themed event for this reason, and on entering there were evidently two players who stood head and shoulders above myself and another guy which basically meant the contest was over before it started in the section we were in.
Hi devoncop. It has been some time since we crossed swords. I hope you will have time to sign up. I'm hoping by having three separate stages that it can keep a player engaged longer. You can look at the first two rounds independently of each other so that regardless of how you go in round one then you will have a fresh start for the second round while the third round will be winner takes all. In this way three chances to win with the final one contributing as much as possible to your conferences overall performance. But nothing in life is perfect so my system might just flop leaving a bad taste in one's mouth. Then it will be back to the old drawing board!
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by devoncop »

Cheers Pantherboy...it has indeed been some time :D

I am deciding which of the proposed Leagues to jump into at the minute so I am just assessing what characteristics each one brings. Being a big fan of Kronenblatts Campaigns and friendly Leagues I tend to play for fun and enjoy meeting online the different characters in this wonderful hobby so though the scoring matters to me I am more focused on playing by instinct (hence my mediocre performances :D ) and having the chance to meet both triumph and disaster.

This League at first glance seemed very much more of an "elite" players contest (supported by a comment above by someone who was concerned about playing folk who are much less skilled than them) so I was just checking out the mechanics.

Glad to see you are still actively engaged either way :D

Ian
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by Karvon »

I'd be interested.

IMHO North Africa should be in the west; their main campaigns were all against western armies.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by random27 »

i might be interested but what if very more than 32 people want to play ? the 32 first players would be chosen ?
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by kronenblatt »

pantherboy wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:08 am ... I've always had a different take on that. To improve the level of play it sometimes is good for less experienced players to cut their teeth on a tough opponent and possibly come away with some new tricks...
I agree with that approach and I like the structure of this league. Of course, I can only speak for myself but I keep learning a lot playing against better players. And maybe competition doesn't need to be dead serious in all cases, since in my view playing is also for fun from a social perspective: to get to know some new people, have a nice chat, etc. :) And I believe this is possible to a larger extent in the tournaments and leagues arranged by the community in this forum than in the official Slitherine tournaments.
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https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108643
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by Aetius39 »

Hi,

I'd be interested. Looks good so far!^^

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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by pantherboy »

Karvon wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 11:34 am I'd be interested.

IMHO North Africa should be in the west; their main campaigns were all against western armies.
Great to hear. As for North Africa you may have a point. To be honest I'm not so knowledgeable regarding these matters and rather looking for an easy division of lists into two of roughly equal size. Once I post the lists I'll happily accept any feedback regarding misplaced nations or more accurate representations. Let me get the initial leg work done than it should be easier to critique. Cheers.
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Re: The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: East versus West – Season One

Post by pantherboy »

random27 wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:42 pm i might be interested but what if very more than 32 people want to play ? the 32 first players would be chosen ?
Hi random27. If more than 32 apply for a period than I hope players that miss a spot will consider joining the second period on offer. If both fill up easily than the next benchmark would be a further 32 creating a second division within each period. If this happened than for the first season I'll group all 64 players and divide them into an "A" Division of 32 players and a "B" Division of 32 players based on their Digital League performance. Once the ELO system kicks in than all future placements would be dependent on a players rating. I hope this clarifies any confusion and I hope you consider joining.
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