New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Moderator: Field of Glory 2 Tournaments Managers

Ludendorf
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 500
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:35 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Ludendorf » Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:44 pm

Ludendorf (Galatians 280-63BC) defeats paulmcneil (Seleucids 125-63BC) 52-23%. 15% attacker casualties. Province 39 falls as, frustrated by their efforts to expand into Dacia, the Galatian horde tries its luck marching around the eastern side of the Black Sea.

The cavalry battle swung this, as did the impact capability of the Galatian foot. The Seleucids can field much better cavalry, but the Galatians can field twice as many cavalry elements, and this prove decisive here. Thank you Paul for the game.

Cunningcairn
Captain - Heavy Cruiser
Captain - Heavy Cruiser
Posts: 947
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:05 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Cunningcairn » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:59 am

Cunningcairn defeats gamercb in Slave Revolt 36 with army losses of 7% losing none of the 4 invading armies and taking territory.

Kabill
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Kabill » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:38 am

The Spanish raid in Ptolemy 49 is a success, with the defending army driven off 13-45 and with no significant. The army proceeds to ravage the province, looting and pillaging the great wealth of Egypt, prompting the governors of Cairo to surrender to Spanish hegemony.
Kabill's Great Generals Mod for FoG2: http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=492&t=84915

Nosy_Rat
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:00 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Nosy_Rat » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:05 pm

Sorry, I'm a bit late again.

Dacian invasion wins in Southern Italy 44-3 (44-5% casualties), and in mainland Dacia batesmotel's army is defeated 55-19 (56-13% casualties).
Another battle against nyczar probably would be concluded as soon as he makes the turn (Romans are 61% routed), unless there are some rallies. I'll post an update when I get it.

EDIT: Nevermind, the last game has ended, Dacia wins 61-37 (58-18% casualties).

Kabill
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Kabill » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:37 pm

Great. One of my battles with Morbio is over and the other very close to concluding. Need to bed now but will get the new turn sorted tomorrow evening after work.
Kabill's Great Generals Mod for FoG2: http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=492&t=84915

Kabill
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Kabill » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:12 pm

In Carthage, Spanish occupiers sally to meet the Syracusian invasion head on. The Syracusian cavalry gives the Spanish significantly more trouble than in their previous engagements, but a strong defensive position on their right flank collapses quicker than anticipated through the skilled throwing of stones and javelins followed by a strong infantry charge. Through this, the advantage of the Syracusian cavalry is unable to secure victory and their army begins to collapse, leaving the Spanish holding their prize 25-53 (no army lost).

The Spanish invasion of Cyprus ends similarly. Despite the Syracusians carving out an advantage on their flank, their main line of hoplites is again unable to withstand an assault from Spanish foot and dissolves before their supremacy on the wing can be capitalised on. The Spanish therefore triumph, 30-63 (provisionally no armies lost, but I still need to see the final return from Morbio as I only just sent off this turn), bringing an end to independent Syracusian dominion.

I've said this elsewhere but will say it again: thanks to Morbio for these successive battles, especially what seems to be a really uneven matchup. Has left me wondering if Impact Foot isn't a bit too good.
Kabill's Great Generals Mod for FoG2: http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=492&t=84915

Kabill
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Kabill » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:16 pm

Turn 13

The last turn saw Nosy_Rat's Dacians continue their unbeaten streak in a series of successful defensive battles while also expanding their holdings into Italy, conquering the city of Rome. The Spanish also expand their dominion, seizing the last of the Syracusian holdings from Morbio as well as thwarting Morbio's counter attack against Carthage and also taking Cairo in Egypt from Cunningcairn. Finally, Ludendorf's Galatians enjoy success against the Persians in the east. The current turn opens with sizeable fleets of Galatian and Etruscan troops in the Eastern Med. no doubt having finally reached their staging area for a series of attacks.

I am currently assuming that the final outstanding battle result (Cunningcairn's attack against gamercb in 31) is a victory for Cunningcairn - my last communication with him indicated that this was close but he had pushed gamercb to 60+ route on the final turn he played before going away for five days. @gamercb, I'd be greatful if you could confirm the outcome of the battle as presumably you will have seen the turn.

Assuming this outcome, we have lost two players this turn: Morbio and gamercb. Thanks both for playing - to Morbio, thanks for the battles; while to gamercb, sorry we never got to play one! @Morbio, you are of course welcome to carry on as you have two armies sailing in the East Med. at the moment but I appreciate you may not want to given that it will be difficult to find a target vulnerable to a small force.

In any case, I'm highlighting this as this brings us fairly close to the second (more likely) win condition, i.e. most held territories when we're down to five or fewer players. It's probably worth posting the current province totals as they're very close at the top:

- Kabill 13
- paulmcneil 12
- Ludendorf 11
- Nosy_Rat 10
- batesmotel 7
- Cunningcairn 7 (probably, otherwise 6)
- nyczar 3

The deadline for the next set of orders is 6pm GMT on Wednesday 5th September, give or take a bit (I'm not great with deadlines you'll have noticed!) I'm going to send my orders to one of you again this turn since I found a flaw in the old system, probably nyczar or batesmotel as I doubt (am hoping?) neither will be attacking me this turn. But if you are, please don't look until after you've sent yours through (though I doubt it will make much difference).
Campaign Map Turn 13.jpg
Campaign Map Turn 13.jpg (477.73 KiB) Viewed 1497 times
Kabill's Great Generals Mod for FoG2: http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=492&t=84915

Ludendorf
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 500
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:35 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Ludendorf » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:17 am

Are those green ships in the Black Sea Etruscan or Dacian Kabill?

Also, I think Nosy Rat can claim Player of the Campaign at this stage, regardless of said campaign's ultimate outcome. The carnage his armies have wrought upon their enemies is astounding. :shock:

nyczar
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:04 am

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by nyczar » Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:14 pm

Kabill & All,

I have only 5 armies in the east Med, not 10. My 5 attack on 27 was repulsed with the loss of four and retreat back of one.

Nosy_Rat
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:00 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Nosy_Rat » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:59 pm

Kabill wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:12 pm
Has left me wondering if Impact Foot isn't a bit too good.
Were you using Sertorius' legions in that battle? Because I've found performance of my MF warbands against Morbio's hoplites really lacking, to say the least.

Also, are Late Roman armies allowed or they are out of the (supposed) timeframe?

nyczar
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:04 am

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by nyczar » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:06 pm

Also, are Late Roman armies allowed or they are out of the (supposed) timeframe?

Yes I was wondering that as well.

Kabill
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Kabill » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:50 pm

Ludendorf wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:17 am
Are those green ships in the Black Sea Etruscan or Dacian Kabill?
Sorry, Dacian. Colour coding was helpful!
Ludendorf wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:17 am
Also, I think Nosy Rat can claim Player of the Campaign at this stage, regardless of said campaign's ultimate outcome. The carnage his armies have wrought upon their enemies is astounding. :shock:
Agreed!
nyczar wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 2:14 pm
I have only 5 armies in the east Med, not 10. My 5 attack on 27 was repulsed with the loss of four and retreat back of one.
Ah, sorry, I might have missed subtracting the armies for the attack in my records. Thanks for your honesty!
Nosy_Rat wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:59 pm
Were you using Sertorius' legions in that battle? Because I've found performance of my MF warbands against Morbio's hoplites really lacking, to say the least.
Yeah, that's what I've used for the whole campaign. I suspect scutarii may have an advantage over using MF warbands because they're a lot cheaper but with comparable fight power: the only advantage warbands get for their price is increased durability but that only matters in extended melees which aren't the point of impact troops anyway. I.e. having a quarter more impact foot units to get more impact attacks and more chances for flank charges is - this is my argument anyway - much more useful than units which can last longer over protracted melees. Hence, Sertorius can match hoplites more or less man-for-man with cheap impact foot (scutarii and core hoplite units cost the same), as well as bringing a pack of heavy warbands and especially legions to reliably break into the opposing line even in protracted melees.

That's not to say that I think the army is unbeatable. But in the absence of strong cavalry, I really don't see how you can effectively counter impact foot, especially a mass of cheap impact foot like the Spanish get (though no doubt we will fight a battle some time and you will show me exactly how it is done!).
Nosy_Rat wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:59 pm
Also, are Late Roman armies allowed or they are out of the (supposed) timeframe?
I don't want to make an executive decision about this but I'm inclined to suggest no rather than yes, if only because the army lists we're playing with have largely is not entirely been high/late classical even if by accident; and also that Rome already gets some of the strongest army lists so giving them extra flexibility in the form of later (more flexible) Roman lists is perhaps an advantage too much. This said, nyczar is not currently in much of a position to exploit this as the Roman player, and the Roman provinces are right in the middle of the map and therefore perhaps more vulnerable to fighting over, so having a strong set of picks for controlling those provinces is perhaps not unreasonable. So happy to take input from others.
Kabill's Great Generals Mod for FoG2: http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=492&t=84915

Ludendorf
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 500
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:35 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Ludendorf » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:24 am

The problem deeper, more resilient formations have is their victories tend to come later on in the battle. That's fine if they can be kept safe and in good order during that time, but a lot of the time, more numerous or more immediately deadly units will gain an advantage somewhere on the field, win locally, and then drive into the flanks of the deep formations before their number advantage can tell.

That said, I would not expect scutarii alone to win against loose order warbands. Of course, there are more scutarii potentially on the field, and once the warbands lose their impact bonus (nullified by the scutarii) other units are free to manoeuvre and annihilate the costly barbarian formations.

I'd personally like to keep it to early/high classical lists predating Legions Triumphant and Age of Belisarius, simply because that feels like the era we're campaigning in. Of course, the campaign has been going for a while now and sweeping changes have taken over the world. However, the sudden emergence of different lists (particularly the later Roman lists) could hand quite a radical advantage to players with factions that historically survived into the 200-500 AD period over players who are stuck with factions that disappeared during that time.

(You could theoretically give players on, say, Carthaginian lands access to lists native to the later North African period, or the Dacians access to Ostrogothic armies and Persians access to Sassanid ones ones. Maybe the constant warfare and cultural mixing driven by conquests could be giving rise to new military systems. However, that sounds pretty complicated when it comes to determining what armies can be used during battles in certain provinces. It seems simpler just to keep it to the time period we've been playing in so far.

nyczar
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:04 am

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by nyczar » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:56 am

If more counties allowed for as many lists as Rome had, it would be more simple to allow any list to be taken. However, as this is not the case, I am incline to favor that we stick to the spirit of the age we began with.

Morbio
Brigadier-General - 8.8 cm Pak 43/41
Brigadier-General - 8.8 cm Pak 43/41
Posts: 1887
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:40 pm
Location: Wokingham, UK

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Morbio » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:59 pm

Kabill wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:50 pm
Nosy_Rat wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:59 pm
Were you using Sertorius' legions in that battle? Because I've found performance of my MF warbands against Morbio's hoplites really lacking, to say the least.
Yeah, that's what I've used for the whole campaign. I suspect scutarii may have an advantage over using MF warbands because they're a lot cheaper but with comparable fight power: the only advantage warbands get for their price is increased durability but that only matters in extended melees which aren't the point of impact troops anyway. I.e. having a quarter more impact foot units to get more impact attacks and more chances for flank charges is - this is my argument anyway - much more useful than units which can last longer over protracted melees. Hence, Sertorius can match hoplites more or less man-for-man with cheap impact foot (scutarii and core hoplite units cost the same), as well as bringing a pack of heavy warbands and especially legions to reliably break into the opposing line even in protracted melees.

That's not to say that I think the army is unbeatable. But in the absence of strong cavalry, I really don't see how you can effectively counter impact foot, especially a mass of cheap impact foot like the Spanish get (though no doubt we will fight a battle some time and you will show me exactly how it is done!).
I think the main difference between Nosy_Rat's Dacian armies, which had some MF warbands, and the Spanish Sertorius army used by Kabill is, as Kabill states, the sheer number of impact foot. This gave me problems in 2 respects;
  1. With so many impact foot there were a fair number of disruptions, and once the hoplite line has some disrupted units then do poorly and soon break, especially if another impact foot wades in on the next round, this causes quick routs, which creates more disrupted units and so the line soon collapses. With the Dacians, I rarely encountered repeated impacts and with fewer disruptions the gaps could be plugged and the effects were localised. When the legions hit the line, it was horrendous, even in melee unless I had some other mitigating POA at which point it was just bad :(
  2. With the Spanish having so many units I had no advantage of envelopment to offset the impact. My choices were to have no or little reserve to keep the line the same size (and then little to plug the gaps that impact caused), or to risk being flanked, which wasn't good either. Against the Dacian armies I could have a flanking option, or reserves to plug the gaps, or a little of both!
Bizarrely, I did better with poor terrain versus the Dacians, than I did with open terrain against the Spanish. If I had met the Spanish army on some of the terrain I had versus the Dacian armies... :evil:

Kabill
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Kabill » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:03 pm

Turn 13 Battle List

In a hurry this time so will keep it short:

Ludendorf attacks with 4 Galatian (280) armies into Nosy_Rat's South Rome defended by 4 Dacian (89) armies - Nosy_Rat triumphs with no armies lost

Ludendorf attacks with 4 Galatian (280) armies into Nosy_Rat's Dacia 22 defended by 4 Dacian (89) armies - Ludendorf triumphs with one army lost

Ludendorf attacks with 4 Galatian (280) armies into Nosy_Rat's Greece 26 defended by 4 Dacian (89) armies - Nosy_Rat triumphs with no armies lost

Ludendorf attacks with 4 Galatian (280) armies into Nosy_Rat's Greece 27 defended by 4 Dacian (89) armies - Ludendorf triumphs with no armies lost

Ludendorf attacks with 4 Galatian (280) armies into Nosy_Rat's Bospora 29 defended by 4 Dacian (89) armies - Rosy_Rat triumphs with no armies lost

Ludendorf attacks with 4 Seleucid (300) armies into Nosy_Rat's Seleucid 38 defended by 4 Dacian (89) armies - Ludendorf triumphs with no armies lost

Nosy_Rat attacks with 4 Macedonian (328) armies into Ludendorf's Seleucid 39 defended by 4 Galatian armies - Nosy_Rat triumphs with one army lost

Nosy_Rat attacks with 4 Dacian (89) armies into Nyczar's North Rome defended by 4 Roman (105) armies - Nosy_Rat triumphs with no armies lost

batesmotel attacks with 4 Pyrric armies into Nosy_Rat's Dacia 23 defended by 4 Dacian (89) armies - batesmotel triumphs with one army lost

batesmotel attacks with 4 Roman (105) armies into Nosy_Rat's Macedonia 24 defended by 4 Macedonian (328) armies - Nosy_Rat triumphs with no armies lost

nyczar attacks with 5 Roman (105) armies into Nosy_Rat's Macedonia 25 defended by 4 Macedonian (328) armies - Nosy_Rat triumphs with one army lost

Cunningcairn attacks with 4 Ptolemaic 55 armies into Kabill's Slave Revolt 35 defended by 4 Spanish (80) armies - Kabill triumphs with no armies lost

Kabill attacks with 4 Spanish (80) armies into paulmcneil's Jewish 46 defended by 4 Jewish armies - Kabill triumphs with no armies lost

Kabill attacks with 4 Spanish (80) armies into Cunningcairn's Jewish 47 defended by 4 Ptolemaic armies - Kabill triumphs with no armies lost

Kabill attacks with 4 Spanish (80) armies into paulmcneil's Nabatean 48 (West) defended by 4 Nabatean armies - Kabill triumphs with no armies lost

Given the volume of battles Nosy_Rat needs to play (11!), while I'm going to set the deadline for 12 days time I think it would be appropriate to be flexible about this. So try and get things done by 6pm GMT on 18th September but running over is fine if needs be.

EDIT:
Also, Cunningcairn confirmed his victory over gamercb in the remaining battle, so the Antigonids are eliminated. Morbio is currently sailing Syracusian pirates around the Mediterranean no doubt looking for Spanish ports to raid! While obviously Morbio can carry on playing, I'm going to rule that players without a territory count as eliminated until they can reclaim a territory for the purposes of the victory conditions, as seafaring armies cannot be attacked. I don't think anyone would abuse this draw out the game but it just occurred to me and seems sensible.
Last edited by Kabill on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:20 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Kabill's Great Generals Mod for FoG2: http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=492&t=84915

batesmotel
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 3383
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:52 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by batesmotel » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:10 pm

Etruscan attack into 24 is from E. Med so has to be Roman 199-106 BC.

Chris
....where life is beautiful all the time

Nosy_Rat
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 251/1
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz  251/1
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:00 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Nosy_Rat » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:36 pm

...yeah, that turn timer extension probably would be useful, thanks.

Ludendorf
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Master Sergeant - U-boat
Posts: 500
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 5:35 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Ludendorf » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:41 pm

Ludendorf (Galatia 280-63BC) challenges Nosy Rat (Dacians 89-106 AD) in South Rome, 22, 26, 27 and 29.

Ludendorf (Seleucids 300-206) challenges Nosy Rat (Dacians 89-106 AD) in 38.

Password for all matches is 'cryhavoc'. PM sent.

Kabill
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Post by Kabill » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:01 pm

batesmotel wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:10 pm
Etruscan attack into 24 is from E. Med so has to be Roman 199-106 BC.
Sorry, yes, updated.
Nosy_Rat wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:36 pm
...yeah, that turn timer extension probably would be useful, thanks.
Yeah, don't worry about it. I'll check in around the deadline see where things are at.
Kabill's Great Generals Mod for FoG2: http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=492&t=84915

Post Reply

Return to “Field of Glory II: Tournaments & Leagues”