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New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:22 pm
by bbogensc
NEW FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament

Strategic Campaign Map (attached here)


Ancient British - paulmcneil
Galatia - Ludendorf
Germania - Ironclad
Spain - Kabill
(Etruscan spot) Punic War Era Roman lists only - batesmotel
Rome - nyczar
Carthage - Najanaja
Ptolemaic -Cunningcairn
Pyrric - RagnarOneTooth
Dacia - Nosy_Rat
Macadeonian - Ktonos
Syracuse - morbio
Slave Revolt - rexhurley
Nabatean - IMC
Persian - bbogensc
Antigonid incl any Greek list - gamercb
Seleucid - shadowblack

If the new player joins before the end of the strategic move phase, they will be allowed to move, if later then they will just automatically build and defend.

Geography Notes
* Ireland is treated as a neutral province that can be conquered.
* 27 has land border with 26.
* 24 has land border with 29, 28 does not border 24.
* 49 has land border with 47.
* 4 has land border with 13.
* 20 has land border with 22.
* 42 does not border 40, 37 does not border 41.
* 32 does not border 33, 34 does not border 31, 28 does not border 34.
* 39 has land border with South Skythia.

Turn Procedure

Strategic Move Phase - 2 Days. Send PM to moderator with strategic moves and build.
Admin Phase - 1 day (or so). Moderator will post battle match ups in forum. If neutral battles occur, then a player will be assigned.
Tactical Phase - 7 days. Battles are played. Post results in forum including provinces conquered.
Next round begins.

Strategic Move Phase
*Each Player sends by PM (to bbogensc) moves and build for each province controlled, e.g.:

Numidia 51
(1) 2 Numidian armies attacks Carthage
(2) 1 Numidian army move to West Med sea zone
(3) Build 1 army Numidian (55BC to 6AD)

Tactical Battle Resolution Phase

* Within a day or so after the Strategic Move Phase, bbogensc will send each player the battles resulting from simultaneous moves in the Strategic Move Phase.
* Tactical Battles should be resolved within 7 days.
* 7 days begin when moderator (bbogensc) sends you your battles after the Strategic Move Phase
* Post battle results on forum page.
* If a province is conquered, NOTE that in the forum post.

Neutral Factions

* Factions that are not player-controlled are NEUTRAL and will defend with 1 army until conquered by a player in the game. Neutral provinces do not build additional armies until conquered by a player.
* Moderator will assign another player to play for Neutral in any battles.
* If a faction is not filled with a player (e.g., Kappadocia), the province just builds until it reaches 2 defensive armies, no more.
* When a player is defeated all provinces still held become neutral and fight with 2 defensive armies. Other player built armies are lost. If a player loses all provinces they have 1 turn to capture a territory or they will be eliminated. If a player misses 3 strategic turns without notifying the moderator they are subject to elimination.

Strategic Rules

* Each player starts with 2 provinces as reflected on the Strategic Campaign Map (except Slave Revolt with 3).
* Each province starts with 1 army of its faction type as chosen by the player.
* Each province automatically produces 1 army per turn (unless conquered in that turn), as selected by the player from its own faction army lists.
* A conquered province may build EITHER local province unit or base unit of the player.
* Player must specify the era of the army produced (e.g., Carthage 280-262BC).
* New army produced in that turn defends the province.
* Units move 1 land space on the strategic map (will be colored counters placed on the map).
* Units may move out to sea in 1 turn, and may move to any land space bordering that sea space in the next turn, no naval battles. Sea spaces are North Sea, West Med, East Med, Black Sea.
* If a player has 1 or more armies of different era or faction (e.g., after conquering a province and then choosing to build a local army type), then they may CHOOSE THE ARMY TYPE for any battle. Send a PM to the opponent with choice prior to battle. This is intended to encourage aggressive gameplay.
* 4 armies is the max that can participate in any battle. However, you can put more than that on a province (e.g., 8 armies and use this to invade with 4 armies in multiple directions). If a province has more than 4 defending armies and loses the battle then the additional armies are lost, however. Extra armies of the attacker that survive the attack withdraw to the originating province.

Tactical Rules

* When a province is invaded, a battle results. Attacker sets up battle in FOGII multiplayer. Defender Side A, Attacker Side B.

Here is a table of how to set up the game in multiplayer:

Detailed Force Size Selection Rules

1x1 Medium Force Size (1200x1200), Medium Map (Pot Luck)
1x2 Adj. Force Size (1600x1200), Medium Map (Pot Luck)
2x2 Large Force Size (1600x1600), Wide Map (Pot Luck)
1x3 Adj. Force Size (1800x1200), Wide Map (Pot Luck)
2x3 Adj Force Size (1600x1800), Wide Map (Pot Luck)
1x4 Adj Force Size (2000x1200), Very Wide Map (Pot Luck)
2x4 (1600x2000), Very Wide Map (Pot Luck)
3x3, Adj Force Size (1800x1800), Very Wide Map (Pot Luck)
3x4, Adj Force Size (1800x2000), Very Wide Map (Pot Luck)
4x4 (or higher), Very Large Force Size (2000x2000), Very Wide Map (Pot Luck)

Detailed Force Depletion Rules

** Players may choose the armies to be depleted.

* If 1x1 ATTACKER WINS (>25% rout % differential), Attacker keeps army. Attacker takes province. In order to keep the attacking army, the attacker must prevail solely on the 25% (i.e., 35% casualties or less where the opponent loses more than 60%).
* If 1x1 ATTACKER WINS (over 60% in rout %). Attacker loses army. Attacker takes province.
* If 1x2 (or higher) ATTACKER WINS, Attacker loses 1 army for each 20% of army lost on total casualties results page (not rout percentage), but not reduced to less than 1. Attacker takes province.
* If 1x1 DEFENDER WINS (>25% rout diff). Defender does not lose any army. Defender keeps province.
* If 1x1 DEFENDER WINS (over 60% in rout diff). Defender loses army. Defender keeps province.
* If 1x1 battle DRAWS (with neither side acheiving 60% casualties), BOTH armies are eliminated. Defender holds the province. (Note: it does not matter who holds the field at nightfall).
* If 1x2 (or higher where Attacker outnumbers Defender) battle DRAWS (with neither side acheiving 60% casualties), Defend loses ALL of its defending armies. Attacker loses only the same number of armies as the Defender, and the remainder return to originating province. Defender holds the province.
* If 2x1, 2x2 (or any battle where the Defender equals or outnumbers the Attacker) battle DRAWS Defender loses 1 army for each 20% of army lost on total casualties results page (not rout percentage), but not less than 1. Attacker loses all armies. (This rule is to prevent an attacker using spoiling draw attacks).
* If DEFENDER WINS on a small scale battle (e.g., 3x1) attacker loses all armies that participated in the actual battle, so in a 3x1 battle lost attacker loses 3. Note the amount of armies lost on a small scale battle cannot be higher than 4 since that is the limit for the number of attacker armies engaged in the battle.
* If DEFENDER WINS on a large scale battle (e.g., 8x6) attacker loses armies up to the amount of defender armies in the battle, so in an 8x6 battle lost attacker loses 6. The surplus armies retreat back to the originating province if possible. If that province has been captured during the turn then those armies are lost as well.
* If MEET AT THE BORDER, both new produced armies JOIN battle. So, a 1x1 battle is played as 2x2, e.g.. Winner takes province, if DRAW (with neither side acheiving 60% casualties), then the standard draw rules apply.
* If a MEET AT THE BORDER battle occurs where a province (Province A) is attacked from more than 1 other provinces (Province B and Province C), and Province A has also attacked Province B in the same turn, THEN 2 battles are fought in the destination provinces on both attacks. As illustration, assume Province A attacks Province B, and both Province B and Province C also both simultaneously attack Province A. Battle 1: Province C attackers versus Province A defending armies only. Battle 2: Province A attackers versus Province B attackers and defenders.
* In the event of a MEET AT THE BORDER with 4-way battles or larger, then the respective armies may be split in half or thirds for each respective battle the province is involved in.

Detailed Strategic Rules:

* If cross invasion then armies meet at the border, then either player may set up battle (first in time prevails send PM to opponent).
* If the same player invades a province from 2 separate provinces, then armies are aggregated for force size and 1 battle is fought.
* If multiple players invade the same province, DEFENDER plays all battles simultaneously. If both Attackers prevail and , then a tie results, and the Attacker with the higher differential in rout percentage in the battle gets to keep the province (subject to the tiebreak alternation rules set below where players shall not win or lose successive tiebreaks). If 3 players attack the same province then all 3 will play a battle and the player with the best rout differential will take the province.
* On the tiebreak procedure where multiple players attack the same province, where both attackers WIN, the loser gets to keep the army and it goes back to the originating province irrespective of the amount of loses it incurred (the battle is treated as a provisional). However, if either attacking player loses, or if both lose, the losing armies are eliminated (similar to the Saxons beating the Vikings before losing to the Normans in 1066).
* If any armies return to a province that has been lost during the turn, they are eliminated.
* A neutral province will automatically rebuild its army if it lost due to a draw battle, but never to exceed 1 army, and that neutral army only defends.
* The attacking human player MAY CHOOSE the army era of a defending NEUTRAL player in setting up the battle.

Tiebreak Procedures

* Neither player should lose or win 2 tiebreaks or adjudications in a row
* Army break point diff
* If player tied or lost against a neutral in the prior turn
* Toss of coin

Diplomatic Rules

* Players assigned to play neutral are expected to play to fullest potential. There is no throwing games for the benefit of an ally.
* Alliances are encouraged between players, no holds barred, but winner takes all (no joint victory).

Administrative Rules:

* Slow play (of any kind) results in DEFEAT for the ENTIRE force at the end of the move period. If you encounter slow play take a screenshot and send to the moderator with the next Strategic Move Phase (see below). If both players allege slow play, then moderator will adjudicate based on screenshots submitted.

Example of Orders

bbogensc orders Turn 1.

Persia home

Persian (480BC to 461BC) attacks Armenia 44
Build Persian (480BC to 461BC)

Persia 45

Persian (550BC to 546BC) attacks Arab 41
Build Persian (419BC to 329BC)

Battle List (Turn 1)

Battle List:

(1) 1x1 Ktonos Macedonian (328BC-321BC) v

Greek (paulmcneil)

(2) 1x1 Ironclad German Horse (260AD-492AD) v

Gaul (Ludendorf)

(3) 2x3 (1600x1800) IMC Nabatean v

CunningCairn Ptolemy (320BC to 167BC)

(4) 1x1 IMC Nabatean v

Jewish (Najanaja)

(5) 1x1 rexhurley Slave Revolt v

Jewish (Najanaja)

(6) 2x1 (1600x1200), RagnarOneTooth Pyrric v

Campanian (Ironclad)

(7) 1x1 Nosy_Rat Dacian (89AD-106AD) v

Ktonos Macedonian (328BC-321BC)

(8) 1x1 gamercb Kyrenean Greek (460BC-322BC) v

Lysimachid (RagnarOneTooth)

(9) 1x1 gamercb Antigonid (320BC-301BC) v

Bosporan (Nosy_Rat)

(10) 1x1 shadowblack Seleucid (166BC-125BC) v

Bosporan (rexhurley)

(11) 1x1 shadowblack Seleucid (300BC-206BC) v

Armenian (Cunningcairn)

(12) 1x1 bbogensc (480BC to 461BC) v

Armenian (Ludendorf)

(13) 1x1 bbogensc (550BC to 546BC) v

Arab (paulmcneil)

(14) 1x1 Kabill (spain) v

Iberian (bbogensc)

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:28 pm
by Ludendorf
I'll pick the Galatians 280-63BC, the hairiest and most heroic barbarians of all!

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:27 pm
by paulmcneil
I'll take ancient British

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:27 pm
by bbogensc
To clarify, it is 1 round every 7 days. Any battles have 4 days to resolve.

I'll post some additional detailed rules once we have the factions selected, like what happens if multiple invasions on the same province and stuff like that. Its been 20 years so I am gradually remembering how we used to do all the details on tabletop campaigns.

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:17 pm
by MikeC_81
Hey sorry,

I don't generally do campaigns. Please remove me from the list as per our pm. So Romans are free :D


Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:48 am
by bbogensc
Will do Mike. Btw, I've done this on tabletop and this campaign will be more actual fun that just playing a series of 1x1 matches like a chess tournament amongst unranked opponents, in my opinion. Probably would drive sales of the game too, at least it did on tabletop.

To answer some questions I've received by PM:

(1) Force Sized Battles. Indeed, you can adjust force size in multiplayer mode, so in this campaign instead of doing battles in sequence 1x1, as a situational example where 2 armies invade a province defended by 1 army, then the force size will be adjusted to 1.5x1 or so, or higher if its 3 to 1 and so forth. This is how it was done on tabletop also and really made the battles fun, as the outnumbered opponent can often find a way to win surprisingly.

(2) Illustration of Strategic Turns. You just submit simple orders to the moderator for each province or sea space you control. So, e.g., if you control Numidia with 3 armies, you could order.

(1) 1 army invades Carthage
(2) 2 armies move to Western Med
(3) Build 1 Numidian (60BC) army

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:07 am
by Najanaja
I'll take Carthage

Hopefully swimming across the Med will be difficult...

Thanks for taking the time to do this.

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:07 pm
by Ktonos
I will take Macedonian.

Isn't the time period lists automated? Or can I choose any Macedonian list?


Antigonid 320-301 if that's an option for the Macedonians.

If not,

Macedonian 328-321

Second edit: Ok had to inspect the map to get that Antigonids and Macedonians are seperate.

So, I'll take Macedonian, list is 328-321

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:12 pm
by ratprince
I'll take rome if Mike is out

Or, gaul if rome us out

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:57 pm
by XLegione
Hi mate, I will take Etruscan. I have just a question about the italian provinces.

Etruscans are more or less people from the actual Tuscany (Florence, Siena, etc.)

Campanians from South

Umbrians from the heart of Italy,

The provinces assigned in the map are not right (Campanian 12,19 - Etruscan 10,16 - Umbria 17,18). Any chance to modify the map?

Xlegione from Italy :wink:

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:33 pm
by bbogensc
Ok, to answer these questions:

Yes, each player has their first choice of faction as in the posts, Rome, Mac, Etruscan, etc.

You can pick a different era army for each army built based on whatever your faction offers. So, at this stage just select faction.

I am aware geography is off in a few cases. Each faction should have a different type army faction on a border (for better and more balanced gameplay). However, I hope it will still feel historical which makes it more enjoyable I think at least.

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:29 pm
by Ironclad
As Persians are included do I take it those are Sassanids? If that is the case does that mean that if I take Germania I can access the later German Foot and Horse tribe armies in the campaign? :)

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:58 pm
by bbogensc
Yes, of course! You can play any german.

I do not intend to play Sassinids, btw.

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:01 pm
by bbogensc
Or, if you want Persians to play as Sassinid i can choose another faction also.

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:23 pm
by Ironclad
Good. Never played those armies but interested to try them. So I'll take Germania if I may.

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:09 pm
by RagnarOneTooth
You could put me down for pyrrhic, though while I take multiple turns a day, due to my time zone New Zealand gmt +12, my opponents and I often have trouble completing games in 4 days, seem to get through the 10 day format okay with 1-3 a day with catch up in weekends. I work casually during the week currently so can't stay up late weeknights, but sometimes can be around all day during the week. So feel free not to put me down if this will be to slow.

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:10 pm
by Ironclad
Whilst I've signed up I do have a couple of reservations which are worth mentioning before the start:
1. In my experience medium sized armies on medium battlefields give much less enjoyment than large ones on wide battlefields as the greater number of units in the latter give greater comfort/reserves against a couple of bad moves, poor deployment or sheer bad luck leaving a player badly disadvantaged. Plus more units are more fun. :)
2. Obviously 1. would have implications for battle completion times but even if you stick at medium/medium four days is exceptionally tight and frankly across a tournament even with willing players I can see problems occurring, not least if different time zones are involved. I pride myself on playing Fog games very quickly but only a fraction of my games have been completed within 4 days, usually because of the timezone issue. A weekly turnaround would seem a better bet.

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:10 pm
by bbogensc
Understood. Only a 1x1 battle will be medium. 2x2 will be large or larger army size. I'll figure out the details before we start the first turn.

If the tactical aspects of the battle could change based on the strategy, that is really a whole new dimension to think about because armies might scale up better or worse.

On the timing, it could be 5 or 6 days to do battles rather than 4 days, will update.

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:56 pm
by bbogensc
Ok, I've gotten 15 requests by PM to make it 7 days time for battles, so 7 days it is.

Re: New FOGII (April 2018) Campaign Tournament (bbogensc)

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:25 pm
by Kabill
7-day games... Hmm... I may be able to manage that.

I'm going to give it a bit more thought but I think I'm probably in. Will have a look at army lists later to see if there's something I fancy playing (I recall having fun with Spain back when FoGII came out so I might pick them but I do like the idea of playing an army I've not really used before as well, so we'll see).

Also, can you clarify whether strategic moves occur between battle periods (i.e. is there a few-day period between each round of battles to submit strategic moves), or parallel to them (i.e. making strategic moves even while battles are in progress)? I wasn't quite sure from the description.