Lord of skulls OP?

Warhammer 40,000: Gladius Relics of War brings you to a world of terror and violence. Four factions will engage in a brutal war for dominance over the planets resources.
Ejmin12
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Lord of skulls OP?

Post by Ejmin12 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:38 pm

Hello first off i wanted to say love the game greatly made and fan of everything so far, however i tried the lord of skulls for first time and wow that thing is really powerful i was just wondering when the unit was made what was the intended way of going about killing/dealing with it, is it made for multiple armies to have to work together to take on cause when its even one hitting monoliths and other high tier units i would think so.

Wikkyd
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by Wikkyd » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:55 am

What really irks me is that all of its weapons are alright, but its gatling cannon alone can do up to 72 damage by itself

Ejmin12
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by Ejmin12 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:58 pm

exactly the fact that it can one shot most units i dont see fair at all

Khaak
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by Khaak » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:18 am

The Problem with the Lord of Skulls isn't so much that he's strong (which he should be to create a Challenge).

The Problem is that he's a giant RNG Button.
He spawns in a random Hex that you (haven't checked if he can spawn in A.I. LOS [they appear to have Maphacks so who knows]) don't have Vision in.

Due to how the game is currently layed out, he can very well spawn, randomly, in the middle of your defensive line forcing you to go into full retreat, before dissapearing once the enemy takes that line.
In this instance you have been completely fucked over, with no warning and you could do nothing about it.

Or he spawns in the Middle of the AI Units and kills them all making them the once that have been fucked.

Either way he doesn't feel like a challenge, just like a random "You win or You lose" Event that you have no chance of beating when he first appears (I tried 20 Times and i consider myself at least half decent, you cant beat him in turn 120ish, not possible).

-

Possible Fixes might be delaying his spawning.
Spawning him in a fixed Position (like a giant visible chaos portal in the middle of the map)
Or (what would be best) giving you a 5 round warning as to where he spawns so you can readjust and prepare.

But a giant Super-unit appearing and 1 round later tearing your Army apart is a lot of things, fun isn't one of them.

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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by ErissN6 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:48 am

This is same problem with quests, they may easily make the game worst, impossible.

FrumpyFurling
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by FrumpyFurling » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:12 pm

There def. needs to be a milestone or check point to get to before he spawns as well, My first game out I was like 20 or turns into the game and still only had basic infantry, Boom: here's the lord of skulls, Boom there goes your base...well that was fun...

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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by Aekar » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:52 pm

I don't see information about the turn during which he spawns.
Spawned at Chapter 3 or 4 of quest line. (I think)
How about you Frumpy, where were you in quest chapters? Please check again and tell us!


Eriss, this is an option.
Just toggle Lord of Skulls off when launching game if you prefer.
Khaak I actually found him fun :)
I hope not to be branded as heretic for this... but its random appearance is exactly why this lord brought fun, surprise and challenge, and I believe for several games to come.



What follows below can be seen as spoilers; it describes some of this Lord of Skulls behaviour; please don't read if you just want to experience the game on your own.



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Remember you are not forced to destroy him.
You can win the game without destroying him.
And as long as you had a balanced development you could expect him to wage chaos but not destroy your entire civ.
People who want easy games should remove this event, people who want challenging games should keep it, I believe it's better like this than to nerf it and remove one of the 2 / 3 challenges in the game.
By "challenging" I mean that you will have chances to fail the game, and make a new game because of these situations; but only in your first playout.
In easy games you should win from your first game. (and possibly never come again)


Lord of Skulls spawned at about the right time for me.
Of course, he came by surprise, this was my first game... and he destroyed a whole task force that was in that sector... while laughing all the time !
Because my main army was busy elsewhere. This was a clear disaster. My largest garrison got wiped, the minor city they were around was wiped, but the army got in place in time so save the capitol.
But at this time I was clearly dominating too, and ready to steamroll the planet otherwise. So that was a welcoming challenging situation.
By the time I began to really hit him, he disappeared.
He could not one-shoot "everything", some units survived one shot and could then retreat, Iothers had to be sacrificed.
I did not even have to use some of the rare debuffer units to begin to hit him hard.

I think he fairly well counter-balances people who min-max technology etc
It's great that he can disappear for a while.

He seemed to spawn according to quest progression or tech progression.
However what you said Frumpy is worrying.
Indeed I don't see any spawn criteria in the XML Faction file.

FrumpyFurling
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by FrumpyFurling » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:38 pm

SPOILERS, SPOILERS, SPOILERS!

Yea it was a surprise to me as well, a random quest pop up and boom, I was in the "force recon" phase clearing out the Robots when he spawned like RIGHT next to my base in the FOW I read the text and said oh neat, I think that's the DLC stuff, and then BOOOOOOOOOOM here he comes sliding out of the fog in all his gloriousness.....and hit the home base a couple times and boom...as SM that was my one and only....and it was dead before I could recall my troops....I mean I was like whelp this is gonna be great....(same thing happened with AM/Enslaver Quest Line and the End of the SM/Exterminatis Questline...but I was at least prepared for those). Ill try and Run it again and see what happens I did turn off the DLC after that.

Moral of the Story: Never Leave home....undefended, at least....

Aekar
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by Aekar » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:07 pm

Thank you for this feedback about your own story :)

The situation you described makes me think that this event may not be well balanced on it's "DOOM LEVEL" depending on the faction you play.
I played Imperial Guards, so had many many units and artillery etc, I could send some fodder .
Even a minor city was a fodder to me, in some way.
That Lord of Skulls may be worse for Space Marines ; I am on a SM game right now, I'll see what kind of rock and roll he'll do to them!
(edit: removed bad typos .. )

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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by FlashXAron_slith » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:38 am

- Next problem is, the game has a problem with the starting settings, when you change them.

As we prefer to play very long games, we always change settings in all our games
to make resources rare and to longest possible research and building times.
And on the biggest maps ...

BUT ALL EVENTS didn't keep that in account, so the Devs should look in that

for any scripted event.
so he pops up in our games, most of the time, when we had 3-4 units :-)

Also "It really should spawn at the center" and not in the middle of ANY troops or near any base (happened already and we had to reload, until he spawned anywhere in unknown area) ,
but when spawned he should try to search the whole map in a spiral and not move back and forward in the same space !

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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by Aekar » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:06 pm

I am completely against the fact that he would pop in a given position
I say this because I think that could make the event pretty much always in complete control (and make it a boring tedious task with no danger)

In my new game I had to keep a few units in garrison in case he would attack.
It was part of the fun - you have then to make tough decisions and manage your risk factor, because keeping such firepower at home was removing it from the front.

To go toward your point if players selected "slower research" then doom events should maybe pop later.
However even with this option, this just means maybe you just want to play with low tech units against it - I did (because I made progression mistakes, not by choice) and it can still work.
I think if you fine-tune your options you could also take your decision regarding keeping or removing the Lord of Skulls.



BTW Frumpy I completed my first game as Space Marine, I was very bad in the game! I even forgot to research Arsenal so had only slow infantry etc.
Lord of Skulls popped at around turn 120 (like in a previous game with Astra Militarum).
I kept a nice garrison at base as I was afraid he would pop - this was my second Gladius game after all.
But my home forest cut all LOS to it so it was a slaughter (think like Predator 1 in the jungle).
I survived though - we have that superb Librarian DOT, which destroyed it.

It was destroyed on its own turn by the space marine DOT, but it bugged because of this and did not score the kill.

Busby
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by Busby » Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:03 pm

AFAIK

The Lord of Skulls appears 8 tiles away from the strongest player in the game.
Usually it appears around turn 100+, and periodically comes and goes from there.

You CAN kill the machine of doom. It gives out roughly 360xp per unit, leveling them up pretty fast.
Easiest way I've dealt with it (should you tick the option to have it on) - Is to Terminator spam, C'tan, Lemun Russ, or MegaNobz.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by Nemesor Xanxas » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:34 pm

I remember the first time I saw him. I was in a pitched war against the orks and guard, and suddenly my bottom most city was gone. He killed every single unit I had and when I finally started getting close to killing him he disappears. Frustrating/10

ErissN6
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by ErissN6 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:43 pm

Aekar wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:06 pm
I survived though - we have that superb Librarian DOT, which destroyed it.
It was destroyed on its own turn by the space marine DOT, but it bugged because of this and did not score the kill.
Same, I think that's a bug. So at now, we must NOT use the Librarian, he's useless, because we don't want to wait for LoSkulls to reappear, immobilising all a waiting army for many turns.

ErissN6
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by ErissN6 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:29 pm

Yeah waiting at least 25 turns for his reappearance. Boring. When must he come back?
He is VERY OP, as he immobilize alone such of my army for so long.
When the beta of this game will end?

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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by IainMcNeil » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:46 am

He is intended to be very powerful. This is not a mistake :)

ErissN6
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by ErissN6 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:28 pm

I had cancel the game, for I waited at least for 50 turns.
Happy I may so spoil time for I'm on holydays. :?

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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by Taare » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:51 pm

he appears at around turn 100 or so, and he is not op, just a challenge, if one assumes to never lose a unit ever yes he is op :P

ErissN6
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by ErissN6 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:14 pm

Taare wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:51 pm
he appears at around turn 100 or so, and he is not op, just a challenge, if one assumes to never lose a unit ever yes he is op :P
Yes, but when does he re-appear? I assume my losses, but not the loss of the LoSkulls.
Sometimes I kill it 1st time, sometimes he despawn to appear again in 10th turns,
sometimes he seems to never come back, lord coward. So my armies wait eternally at my SM center, to not being destroyed, and my economy becomes complete broken for I can no longer expand, and moreover other factions steal my resources.

Aekar
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Re: Lord of skulls OP?

Post by Aekar » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:32 pm

and my economy becomes complete broken

Then they are not called the Ruinous Powers for nothing. :)
I think a very nice part of the challenge is not knowing exactly the "when" and "where".

Just leave a garrison on your frontiers to be sacrificed, to protect the city and delay that monster, then head away with the rest of your army and crush your enemies!
It works.

But yes, you mentioned the Librarian DOT bug.
I should have pointed out on this thread, that I had put this as a bug report as it breaks the quest.

If Lord of Skulls disappears you get a message.
If Lord of Skulls bugs this is AFAIK only because of the Librarian DOT and if he dies from it.
Others may not have noticed but you had the same bug so having waited for 100 turns broke your last game, I see that now.

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