The poll on player army choices is now closed . . . 23-20 in favour of no change

Moderator: Field of Glory 2 Tournaments Managers

Should we change the army selection rule?

Poll ended at Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:06 pm

1. Yes
20
47%
2. No
23
53%
 
Total votes: 43

stockwellpete
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 9227
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by stockwellpete » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:28 pm

CLARIFICATION

JUST IN CASE THERE IS ANY CONFUSION - ALL THAT IS BEING PROPOSED IS THAT IF YOU USE AN ARMY IN ONE SEASON THEN YOU CANNOT USE IT AGAIN IN THE NEXT SEASON. THE THREE ARMIES THAT YOU SELECTED THAT WERE NOT CHOSEN IN THE PREVIOUS SEASON CAN BE CHOSEN AGAIN NEXT TIME.

General Shapur
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 161
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:25 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by General Shapur » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:36 pm

I don't think its necessary. If I loose too many with an army it won't see me as its general for the next season (no more Indians or Spartans for me). Not only that, but after 9 games I feel like a change anyway based on what I've seen other players doing (against me).
Look back over the past, with its changing empires that rose and fell, and you can foresee the future, too. M.A.

devoncop
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:46 am

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by devoncop » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:45 pm

Forgive me Pete. Is it not more restrictive as that as you were talking about lumping all the Diadochi armies into one category and ruling out the whole category.

So if say Geffalrus with his pike fetish played with the Antigonids one season he would not be able to choose the Lysymachids the following season ..........or am I misunderstanding ?

sunnyboy
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:16 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by sunnyboy » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:06 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:05 pm


At the moment players who are rated in the top places in a division, particularly in the A divisions which tend to be more stable in their composition from season to season, never know which army they are going to get, whereas players who receive their army allocation before the better players have a much greater chance of getting their preferred army. For instance, players who finish 6th, 7th or 8th know that they are very likely to get their first choice of army in the next season.This means that certain armies are never, or hardly ever, available to the higher rated players. One way to mitigate this a little bit is to say that players cannot have an army from the same nation in consecutive seasons. I think it is a very mild regulation, to be honest, given the number of armies (with different allied options) that are available now.
Personally I like the idea, however I also understand people wanting the opportunity to play a favourite army.

If this is primarily a concern at the top flight, and less so in the lower divisions. Maybe this could be the price of admission to the big league and the rule be introduced to Division A only?

stockwellpete
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 9227
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by stockwellpete » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:45 pm

devoncop wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:45 pm
Forgive me Pete. Is it not more restrictive as that as you were talking about lumping all the Diadochi armies into one category and ruling out the whole category.

So if say Geffalrus with his pike fetish played with the Antigonids one season he would not be able to choose the Lysymachids the following season ..........or am I misunderstanding ?
I think this Diadochi business is a bit of a minefield really. The period in question is roughly 322-275 BC and only the Lysimachid army fits neatly into that timespan. On top of that the first two Seleucid armies within that period (320-303 and 302-301 BC) are not really pike armies at all, with their medium sized armies fielding a maximum of only 4 pike units. Apart from that, the various Diadochi armies are fairly similar, usually with between 6-8 pike units available (the later Macedonians have 10).

At the moment a player can select Antigonids, Lysimachids, Macedonians and Ptolemaics as his four choices knowing full well that he will be allocated one of the pike armies. I would like that to stop really. And if there are four players in a division doing something similar then that division is going to end up with 4 pike armies in it and I think that is probably two too many.

To answer your question (and to deal with Geffalrus's pike fetish), one way to deal with it is to say that in Classical Antiquity if you are allocated with one from the Antigonid, Lysimachid, Macedonian, Ptolemaic or Seleucid group of armies in one season then you cannot pick from that group of armies in the next season. At least that is straightforward for players to understand. Exemptions could be offered for the two earlier Seleucid armies mentioned earlier as they only have a few pikes. So a player could still pick an early Seleucid army, plus the Pyrrhic army as well (a pike army), in the season after using a fully-fledged pike army.

The other thing to do with it is to say that the Antigonid, Lysimachid, Macedonian, Ptolemaic and Seleucid armies constitute one "nation" in the same way that Achaemenid Persian, Carthaginian, Roman, Thracian, Byzantine and Arab armies do - and then give them an exemption from the "one nation" rule so that 2 armies from the group can appear in each division. We have already agreed to this mechanism for the other armies in our most recent poll. I think this would work OK myself and increase the variety of armies selected in Classical Antiquity.

stockwellpete
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 9227
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by stockwellpete » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:49 pm

sunnyboy wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:06 pm

Personally I like the idea, however I also understand people wanting the opportunity to play a favourite army.

If this is primarily a concern at the top flight, and less so in the lower divisions. Maybe this could be the price of admission to the big league and the rule be introduced to Division A only?
Yes, this could be a Plan B. I would actually make it for Divisions A and B. I think it is more of an issue for the higher divisions as the A divisions only lose players through relegation, whereas the B and C divisions lose players through promotion as well. The D divisions, where they run, often have a lot of new players in them.

devoncop
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:46 am

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by devoncop » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:06 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:45 pm
devoncop wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:45 pm
Forgive me Pete. Is it not more restrictive as that as you were talking about lumping all the Diadochi armies into one category and ruling out the whole category.

So if say Geffalrus with his pike fetish played with the Antigonids one season he would not be able to choose the Lysymachids the following season ..........or am I misunderstanding ?
I think this Diadochi business is a bit of a minefield really. The period in question is roughly 322-275 BC and only the Lysimachid army fits neatly into that timespan. On top of that the first two Seleucid armies within that period (320-303 and 302-301 BC) are not really pike armies at all, with their medium sized armies fielding a maximum of only 4 pike units. Apart from that, the various Diadochi armies are fairly similar, usually with between 6-8 pike units available (the later Macedonians have 10).

At the moment a player can select Antigonids, Lysimachids, Macedonians and Ptolemaics as his four choices knowing full well that he will be allocated one of the pike armies. I would like that to stop really. And if there are four players in a division doing something similar then that division is going to end up with 4 pike armies in it and I think that is probably two too many.

To answer your question (and to deal with Geffalrus's pike fetish), one way to deal with it is to say that in Classical Antiquity if you are allocated with one from the Antigonid, Lysimachid, Macedonian, Ptolemaic or Seleucid group of armies in one season then you cannot pick from that group of armies in the next season. At least that is straightforward for players to understand. Exemptions could be offered for the two earlier Seleucid armies mentioned earlier as they only have a few pikes. So a player could still pick an early Seleucid army, plus the Pyrrhic army as well (a pike army), in the season after using a fully-fledged pike army.

The other thing to do with it is to say that the Antigonid, Lysimachid, Macedonian, Ptolemaic and Seleucid armies constitute one "nation" in the same way that Achaemenid Persian, Carthaginian, Roman, Thracian, Byzantine and Arab armies do - and then give them an exemption from the "one nation" rule so that 2 armies from the group can appear in each division. We have already agreed to this mechanism for the other armies in our most recent poll. I think this would work OK myself and increase the variety of armies selected in Classical Antiquity.

So presumably if Geffalrus decides not to enter CA the season after he has used his beloved Antigonids (or similar) or I was unable to choose my zealots in LA we would then be allowed to enter the following season and use them then ?

I am not saying that would happen I am speaking metaphorically by the way.
I

stockwellpete
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 9227
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by stockwellpete » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:36 pm

devoncop wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:06 pm
So presumably if Geffalrus decides not to enter CA the season after he has used his beloved Antigonids (or similar) or I was unable to choose my zealots in LA we would then be allowed to enter the following season and use them then ?

I am not saying that would happen I am speaking metaphorically by the way.
I suppose so. I haven't really thought about it, to be honest. If you miss a season in a section then you may lose your place in the division you were in so it will be harder for you to predict where you will be in the queue when the armies are allocated.

devoncop
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
Posts: 1209
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:46 am

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by devoncop » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:38 pm

That's cool.

Thanks.

Geffalrus
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 486
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:06 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by Geffalrus » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:00 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:45 pm
At the moment a player can select Antigonids, Lysimachids, Macedonians and Ptolemaics as his four choices knowing full well that he will be allocated one of the pike armies. I would like that to stop really. And if there are four players in a division doing something similar then that division is going to end up with 4 pike armies in it and I think that is probably two too many.
This is starting to feel personal, as that has literally been my picking strategy for both my seasons of Classical. :wink:

That being said, I have come to enjoy my experience with the Palmyrans and the Polish, so I fully recognize the value trying new things. I'm still gonna #1 pick Antigonids every time in Classical, but maybe I'll choose some other types of armies for my backup picks. I don't inherently think that merging the Diadochi into one category is a bad idea. Though Morkin should watch out, as I've had my eyes on that Epirus army list for some time now.........

gamercb
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:53 pm

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by gamercb » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:08 pm

I am just a lowly player in Division C and my taking part is to play against different players. I choose different armies for the experience as it does not seem to matter what I choose, I am either a very bad general or my luck is low. It makes me sometimes wonder why I play, but the opponents are good.

So if others feel that they must play with the same army all the time, then so be it, it is their loss as far as I am concerned. I have never been a winning is everything person.

SnuggleBunnies
Captain - Bf 110D
Captain - Bf 110D
Posts: 860
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:09 am

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:23 pm

I personally like any change that means more variety, and more players being exposed to different playstyles.

stockwellpete
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 9227
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by stockwellpete » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:46 am

SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:23 pm
I personally like any change that means more variety, and more players being exposed to different playstyles.
It doesn't look like this proposal is going to pass. Very disappointing and dull really given the wide range of armies with different allies that are now available. I will certainly bring in the Diadochi rule that will reduce the number of pike armies possible in a division in Classical Antiquity in future. This season the number of pike armies in each division was A-4, B-3, C-2 and D-3, but from next season the maximum permissible will be 3 (provided the Pyrrhic army is chosen as well as the two Diadochi armies allowed).

paulmcneil
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 398
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Winchester, UK
Contact:

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by paulmcneil » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:55 am

Personally I like the paired challenges we get in the slitherine tournament, perhaps you can pick any army but have to play a paired match with your opponent's army?
Paul McNeil

stockwellpete
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 9227
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by stockwellpete » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:02 pm

paulmcneil wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:55 am
Personally I like the paired challenges we get in the slitherine tournament, perhaps you can pick any army but have to play a paired match with your opponent's army?
It is a good idea in theory, but in practice it would mean that divisions would have to consist of just 6 players. At the moment each player plays 9 matches in a division; in a division of six players playing paired games, the match count for each player would be 10.

nyczar
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:04 am

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by nyczar » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:02 am

I voted no because in one division I have enjoyed putting on kilts and becoming effective in the use of horse and chariot; it still remains fun for me to play them. In other divisions I experiment, but being a good but not godlike player, I find my experiments tend to end with my crushing given the level I play in. Both to play one list and try others are my choices, subject to the rank allocation rule we voted on earlier. I don't want to be forced to play new lists, because someone else wants me to be diversified. If I have formed an affinity for one particular list, let me become awesome with them so that my enemies tremble with the knowledge they will face blue paint and mobile spears. Had the digital league been established in the beginning, as Patherboy's was to push extraordinary diversified play, that would be one thing. In this case, with 5 seasons of freedom established, I dont want any yoke on my choice, even if it seems limited in scope.

Triarii
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:58 pm

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by Triarii » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:02 pm

Hi Pete,
I remember LoEG (when my memory does not fail me) and the enforced list change worked fine.
That said I do not think it is in anyway a necessary rule and I agree with Morbio; For those who have played a bit the required new list does not matter and for those who are new it might be off-putting to have to leave the comfort blanket of the familiar - I know some who are new feel happier continuing to learn with what they know.
So as I see it there is a risk of discouraging some newer player entrants, it will require extra administration and potentially/inevitably some carping will arise. Your current system works and your seeding system means a likely second or third choice if a player is seeded high so don't change it.

As a PS
However if the poll is inconclusive/equally split how about applying the rule for those in Divs A and B as long as they remain in Divs A and/or B?

stockwellpete
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 9227
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by stockwellpete » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:53 pm

Triarii wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:02 pm
Hi Pete,
I remember LoEG (when my memory does not fail me) and the enforced list change worked fine.
That said I do not think it is in anyway a necessary rule and I agree with Morbio; For those who have played a bit the required new list does not matter and for those who are new it might be off-putting to have to leave the comfort blanket of the familiar - I know some who are new feel happier continuing to learn with what they know.
So as I see it there is a risk of discouraging some newer player entrants, it will require extra administration and potentially/inevitably some carping will arise. Your current system works and your seeding system means a likely second or third choice if a player is seeded high so don't change it.
New players in their first season will be completely unaffected by this ruling as they can choose exactly what they like. Players will only be affected in their second season onwards when the army(ies) they used in their first season will not be available to them. The other three armies they chose in their selections but did not get allocated to them can be chosen again. So it would be a very mild restriction indeed. It doesn't look like it is going to gain enough support in the poll. One of the things I will do if the proposal is defeated is to designate the Diadochi armies (excluding the latest Seleucid and Ptolemaic armies) as coming from one "nation". So players will only be able to choose one army from this group, just like any other nation. As we agreed in a previous poll certain "nations" that have 6 or more armies in one section of the tournament will be allowed two armies in a division instead of one. The Diadochi group will be granted this exemption.

stockwellpete
Field of Glory Moderator
Field of Glory Moderator
Posts: 9227
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by stockwellpete » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:56 pm

Triarii wrote,
As a PS
However if the poll is inconclusive/equally split how about applying the rule for those in Divs A and B as long as they remain in Divs A and/or B?
I don't think there are many votes to come in now so I don't see a 50/50 split likely, although I do like the idea as a Plan B. I am very surprised (not in a good way) at the result of this poll.

Cunningcairn
Captain - Bf 110D
Captain - Bf 110D
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:05 am
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: Poll on player army choices restriction

Post by Cunningcairn » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:29 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:56 pm
Triarii wrote,
As a PS
However if the poll is inconclusive/equally split how about applying the rule for those in Divs A and B as long as they remain in Divs A and/or B?
I don't think there are many votes to come in now so I don't see a 50/50 split likely, although I do like the idea as a Plan B. I am very surprised (not in a good way) at the result of this poll.
Pete I think there are a lot of players that did not play the earlier digital leagues and that has influenced the vote. I think if you did the vote again in a few seasons time the vote will be what you expected. Will you have a poll to see if it will be introduced in Div A and B?

Post Reply

Return to “Field of Glory II Digital League”