Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

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Would you be in favour of moving to larger 1600pt armies in all sections of the FOG2 Digital League?

Poll ended at Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:04 pm

1. Yes
34
56%
2. No
27
44%
 
Total votes: 61

stockwellpete
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Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by stockwellpete » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:04 pm

We have discussed this before, about a year ago, in fact. This will be the last poll on this subject. If there is 70% or more in favour then larger 1600pt armies will be introduced in all sections of the Digital League in Season 9.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by devoncop » Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:15 pm

I voted in favour but it will be a very interesting test of whether the more vocal forumites (who appear to be in favour given contributions on the subject) are reflective of the rest...m

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by nyczar » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:53 pm

70% feels high to me. I am thinking that a 70% threshold is designed to minimize the loss of players. If it is desired to minimize player defection, 60% seems like a strong vote to at least add one more division to the 1600 point threshold, if not both. I'll sign up for my 4 divisions regardless.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by stockwellpete » Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:37 am

nyczar wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:53 pm
70% feels high to me. I am thinking that a 70% threshold is designed to minimize the loss of players. If it is desired to minimize player defection, 60% seems like a strong vote to at least add one more division to the 1600 point threshold, if not both. I'll sign up for my 4 divisions regardless.
I think we have a good balance already with 2 sections at 1200pts and 2 at 1600pts. So I don't think there is any need for a change unless there is very substantial support for one. That is why I set the bar at 70%. If those wanting a change fall just short of this target then I will change the Themed Event to 1600pts provided there is at least 66% support for larger 1600pt armies. But to shift me from 1200pts for Classical and Late Antiquity you will need to get 70% in the poll.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by nyczar » Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:44 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:37 am
nyczar wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:53 pm
70% feels high to me. I am thinking that a 70% threshold is designed to minimize the loss of players. If it is desired to minimize player defection, 60% seems like a strong vote to at least add one more division to the 1600 point threshold, if not both. I'll sign up for my 4 divisions regardless.
I think we have a good balance already with 2 sections at 1200pts and 2 at 1600pts. So I don't think there is any need for a change unless there is very substantial support for one. That is why I set the bar at 70%. If those wanting a change fall just short of this target then I will change the Themed Event to 1600pts provided there is at least 66% support for larger 1600pt armies. But to shift me from 1200pts for Classical and Late Antiquity you will need to get 70% in the poll.
Got it, Thanks.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by Ludendorf » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:05 pm

I'd kind of like a mix to be honest. I guess I'll abstain. A 2000 point tournament would be interesting as well; it drastically changes how some of the more one-dimensional lists play. The Galatians go from being a mediocre list to being positively lethal for example.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by Swuul » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:36 pm

IMO, would be cool to have a very large option too :) Classical Antique would be my choice, as there were some truly large battles in that era, and it would indeed give new perspective to armies such as the Galatians :)
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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by stockwellpete » Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:53 pm

Swuul wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:36 pm
IMO, would be cool to have a very large option too :) Classical Antique would be my choice, as there were some truly large battles in that era, and it would indeed give new perspective to armies such as the Galatians :)
No, that won't be happening in the FOG2DL.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by SLancaster » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:07 pm

I voted no. I like having the mix of medium and large armies and people can choose which sections to join.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by nyczar » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:13 pm

SLancaster wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:07 pm
I voted no. I like having the mix of medium and large armies and people can choose which sections to join.
Perhaps we could mixed it up further by alternating the divisions that have 1600 points in any one season. Classic Antiquity is 1200 this season and next it is 1600, then 1200 etc....allows players that prefer one or the other to enjoy different ages or try different list/strategies within the same ages based on a increase/decrease in points. Variety supports engagement.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by Ludendorf » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:07 pm

I've decided to concur with the no vote. A mixture is good. If there is a difference in how size affects elements of the battle, then we want a good variety of battle sizes.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by SLancaster » Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:05 am

nyczar wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:13 pm
SLancaster wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:07 pm
I voted no. I like having the mix of medium and large armies and people can choose which sections to join.
Perhaps we could mixed it up further by alternating the divisions that have 1600 points in any one season. Classic Antiquity is 1200 this season and next it is 1600, then 1200 etc....allows players that prefer one or the other to enjoy different ages or try different list/strategies within the same ages based on a increase/decrease in points. Variety supports engagement.
Well, I think we can say that the idea of 1600 points supports your engagement! You would like to see all the sections have 1600 points as you said. That is your choice and preference.

Sometimes things just happen without any logic or defined plan. I did ask someone the other day why Classical and Late Antiquity have 1200 points and the other two sections have larger armies. It just happened. I prefer smaller armies so I might prefer all the sections to be 1200 points if it was up to me. As things stand, we have a mix and probably it is for the best.

I haven't actually played that many games with 1600-point armies as I have always played in the Classical and Late Antiquity sections. It doesn't mean that in the future I will still prefer 1200-point armies, we will see!
Last edited by SLancaster on Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by Karvon » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:22 am

Having played a fair number of large and very large battles, I would definitely not want to see this for all divisions. I stopped playing in EM because it was switched to 1600 pts a couple of seasons back.

I don't mind playing the occasional large battle, but they are too time consuming for a whole slate of games for me. Furthermore, for league play, I think they skew in favor of lists with more options; the swiss army lists get more powerful as they can tailor more than those lists with fewer options.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by SLancaster » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:43 am

Yes, you have to remember that players have nine games to play for just one section. Some players do play in three or four sections but many only play in one or two sections because of time constraints. Making all the sections have larger armies may suit some but not everyone.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:22 am

I voted no. It takes a lot of time to play the large battles, and if all 4 sections were to be large I would have to enter less sections for my sanity.
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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by rs2excelsior » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:21 am

Does it honestly take people so much more time to play large vs medium battles? I haven’t noticed my Biblical or EMA matches taking significantly longer than my CA or LA matches. Then again, I’m very much not a top tier player, maybe people who are spend more time thinking through individual moves than I do.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by devoncop » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:05 am

rs2excelsior wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:21 am
Does it honestly take people so much more time to play large vs medium battles? I haven’t noticed my Biblical or EMA matches taking significantly longer than my CA or LA matches. Then again, I’m very much not a top tier player, maybe people who are spend more time thinking through individual moves than I do.
I agree.

Looks to be a disappointing result coming through. I have really enjoyed the bigger battles in EMA and Biblical this season so I think next season I may just enter those Divisions.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by kronenblatt » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:46 am

Would it work to have some divisions use Medium and some divisions Large in each section? Or would that be too complicated and too cumbersome to administer?
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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by stockwellpete » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:31 am

kronenblatt wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:46 am
Would it work to have some divisions use Medium and some divisions Large in each section? Or would that be too complicated and too cumbersome to administer?
No, a significant minority of players do not bother to read the instructions so any further complications will cause disruption and chaos, which would then be up to me to sort out. If I have learnt anything from running a dozen seasons now it is to keep things as simple as possible.

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Re: Larger armies right across the FOG2 Digital League?

Post by kronenblatt » Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:42 am

stockwellpete wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:31 am
kronenblatt wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:46 am
Would it work to have some divisions use Medium and some divisions Large in each section? Or would that be too complicated and too cumbersome to administer?
No, a significant minority of players do not bother to read the instructions so any further complications will cause disruption and chaos, which would then be up to me to sort out. If I have learnt anything from running a dozen seasons now it is to keep things as simple as possible.
Ok, many thanks for answer Pete!
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