Drilled and undrilled Cav

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JCgoose
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Drilled and undrilled Cav

Post by JCgoose » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:33 am

Hey

I was just wanting to get someone else opinion\a reason to take Sup arm undrilled Cav bow swd for 18pts over sup arm drilled cav bow swd.
My seljuks can have either before 1100AD but apart from getting a more swanking looking ghilman model to depict nobles I can't really see a reason to go undrilled.
Is there something I missing here?

cheers
Jon
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david53
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Re: Drilled and undrilled Cav

Post by david53 » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:21 am

JCgoose wrote:Hey

I was just wanting to get someone else opinion\a reason to take Sup arm undrilled Cav bow swd for 18pts over sup arm drilled cav bow swd.
My seljuks can have either before 1100AD but apart from getting a more swanking looking ghilman model to depict nobles I can't really see a reason to go undrilled.
Is there something I missing here?

cheers
Jon
Your not missing nothing there for the extra 1 point take drilled. I think the ability to turn move or move and turn or expand if you have to and move with Cavalry armies is the business. Go drilled all the time, IMO.
Dave

petedalby
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Post by petedalby » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:40 am

Go drilled all the time, IMO.
Spot on - the best value 1AP in the game.

Pete

Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:24 pm

We've seen undrilled get hung in a spot on the battlefield unable to react in time. Drilled!!! I love the ancient Spanish guys under Sertorius...drilled 4paks of MF everywhere :)

deadtorius
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Post by deadtorius » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:15 pm

go drilled unless your entire strategy is to charge straight forward smash into whatever is out front and then stand around and watch the rest of the battle unfold. 1 point per stand that is very well spent.

And yes Sertoroius and the drilled Spanish are a thorn in the side of whoever has to fight them, althogh they have gone down to the romans before.

JCgoose
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Post by JCgoose » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:10 am

well bugger the nobles then, I'll stick with the drilled ghilman
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Scrumpy
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Post by Scrumpy » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:04 am

Considering the advantages drilled have over undrilled troops, they all seem very cheap in comparison.

hammy
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Post by hammy » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:16 pm

Drilled cavalry are only better than undrilled cavalry in that they pass CMTs on a 7 and are better at expanding. For lancers the expanding is normally not that important but the CMT on a 7 can be quite handy when you are rolling not to charge.

Armoured lightspear cavalry are probably the type that gains the least from being drilled.

The cost of drilled can be considered low but if you pay for drilled then use them like undrilled the points used are often wasted. Drilled cataphracts in numbers are often used just like undrilled ones and then the owners complain about their lack of effectiveness.

deadtorius
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Post by deadtorius » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:23 pm

Odd I always used drilled cataphracts... my only complaint is they move to slow to move from one hot spot to the next, but what can you expect from a poor horse with over 100lbs of armour? Thats the advantage the cavalry have, quick like lightning.

hammy
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Post by hammy » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:25 pm

deadtorius wrote:Odd I always used drilled cataphracts... my only complaint is they move to slow to move from one hot spot to the next, but what can you expect from a poor horse with over 100lbs of armour? Thats the advantage the cavalry have, quick like lightning.
I am not saying drilled cataphracts are bad, just that if you get four BGs of drilled cataphracts and then charge them into a big block of enemy then they are not particualrly good value for the points. If you use them as a mobile heavy mob then IMO they are actually pretty good.

grahambriggs
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Post by grahambriggs » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:45 pm

hammy wrote:Drilled cavalry are only better than undrilled cavalry in that they pass CMTs on a 7 and are better at expanding. For lancers the expanding is normally not that important but the CMT on a 7 can be quite handy when you are rolling not to charge.

Armoured lightspear cavalry are probably the type that gains the least from being drilled.

The cost of drilled can be considered low but if you pay for drilled then use them like undrilled the points used are often wasted. Drilled cataphracts in numbers are often used just like undrilled ones and then the owners complain about their lack of effectiveness.
Not quite Hammy. A big difference is that drilled cavalry can expand end move. For shooty cavalry I've foundm that makes a big difference when pushing back LH.

Regards

Graham

kal5056
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Post by kal5056 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:06 pm

Had a recent battle at Bayou Wars where a roll of a 6 with undrilled shooty Cav kept my opponent from expanding while pinned by my Knights. He then could not evade and as a result his flank collapsed. I amsure he would have prefered to have paid the extra 4 points to have that expansion.

Gino
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Scrumpy
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Post by Scrumpy » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:54 pm

You'll lose your image of being unlucky at FoG Gino !

berthier
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Post by berthier » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:02 pm

I most definetely would have found those 4 points if the army list date would have allowed such. As it was I practically handed you the win. @#@$ Ottomans.

kal5056
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Post by kal5056 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:08 pm

Wasn't criticizing your list choice. Just the difference between Drilled and Undrilled.
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GINO

berthier
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Post by berthier » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:23 pm

Didn't mean to imply you were. Can't wait for the rematch.

JCgoose
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Post by JCgoose » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:34 am

grahambriggs wrote:
Not quite Hammy. A big difference is that drilled cavalry can expand end move. For shooty cavalry I've foundm that makes a big difference when pushing back LH.

Regards

Graham
Hmm sounds to me like it will be worth the 1pt to get them and the army list can spare it. This then begs the question why have the two units there (barring finding your a couple of pts over)?
If I ever get unsure of my plan I just think to myself...DENNY CRANE!

DaiSho
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Post by DaiSho » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:57 am

deadtorius wrote:go drilled unless your entire strategy is to charge straight forward smash into whatever is out front
Yup, I was outgunned by 2 BG's of 8MF vs 1 BG of 8HF, but took them on one at a time because the first one got in the way of the second one and the second one could never roll the CMT to get around the flank. Drilled is good, but if you have a solid line it's a waste of points. I use my Drilled Hoplites on the flanks of my Undrilled Hoplites. The Undrilled go straight forward, the Drilled do anything fancy. Generally it works.

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