Spearmen

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NZsam03
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Spearmen

Post by NZsam03 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:27 am

Can any army get lots (i.e. at least 16) bases of Armoured, Poor, Undrilled Defensive Spearmen?
Thanks

MCollett
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Re: Spearmen

Post by MCollett » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:26 am

NZsam03 wrote:Can any army get lots (i.e. at least 16) bases of Armoured, Poor, Undrilled Defensive Spearmen?
Armoured defensive spearmen aren't very common. But given that maintaining cohesion is so critical for spearmen, I really can't see why you would prefer poor armoured to average protected for the same points. Plenty of lists have more of the latter than anyone could possibly want ...

Best wishes,
Matthew

Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:59 am

Uses all 16 av pro spearmen in his LRRoman army that he can get!!!...have proven very useful. But I don't think I'd touch a poor defensive one unless he was a Seleucid one and at the end of my spear! :wink:

NZsam03
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Re: Spearmen

Post by NZsam03 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:17 am

MCollett wrote:
NZsam03 wrote:Can any army get lots (i.e. at least 16) bases of Armoured, Poor, Undrilled Defensive Spearmen?
Armoured defensive spearmen aren't very common. But given that maintaining cohesion is so critical for spearmen, I really can't see why you would prefer poor armoured to average protected for the same points. Plenty of lists have more of the latter than anyone could possibly want ...

Best wishes,
Matthew
Ok...
What about Armoured, Average, Undrilled, Defensive spear then?
And in that case what do you think of these lists then?
viewtopic.php?t=15652

Oh, and since you live in Auckland too, where do you buy your figures from? (to balance figure price, quality and :shock: postage)

Thanks in advance
Sam

kevinj
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Post by kevinj » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:21 am

Can any army get lots (i.e. at least 16) bases of Armoured, Poor, Undrilled Defensive Spearmen?
Khurasanian can have up to 24.

PyrrhicVictory
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Post by PyrrhicVictory » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:58 pm

All the Medieval German Lists ( German City Leagues, Later Medieval Feudal German, and Later Medieval German) have Armoured/ Average/ Drilled or Undrilled/ Def. Spear. The former two can have lots of bases (36), while the Later German can have 12, but only at Drilled.

gozerius
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Post by gozerius » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:25 pm

Early Russian can have 24 ave armored D spear. Are you looking for a specific era, or are you just fascinated by armored defensive spear? Defensive spear are considered support troops. What are you looking for as a strike arm?
Thracians
Classical Indians
Medieval
-Germans (many flavors), Danes, Low Countries
Burgundians
In progress - Later Hungarians, Grand Moravians

hazelbark
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Post by hazelbark » Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:37 pm

gozerius wrote:Early Russian can have 24 ave armored D spear. Are you looking for a specific era, or are you just fascinated by armored defensive spear? Defensive spear are considered support troops. What are you looking for as a strike arm?
They actually can be a good strike arm when you shove them in someone's face. The opponent has to attack or run away if they wait too long they can't run.

NZsam03
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Post by NZsam03 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:52 pm

I'm mainly just fascinated by Defensive Spearmen. I intend to use some in my Fatimid/Syrian States army (see the link, I posted earlier), and want to know how common they are in other armies

Thanks

whitehorses
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Post by whitehorses » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:26 pm

Defensive Spears are good for:

Stoppers
Rear Support.


That's it. :P

NZsam03
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Post by NZsam03 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:40 pm

whitehorses wrote:Defensive Spears are good for:

Stoppers
Rear Support.


That's it. :P
That's the idea. The spearmen hold the front, while the mounted do all the hard work :D

whitehorses
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Post by whitehorses » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:05 pm

Unless your Shock Mounted get in the soft & smelly, & have to rely upon the Defensive Spears to come to their aid.
Erm, not ideal.....

NZsam03
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Post by NZsam03 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:28 pm

whitehorses wrote:Unless your Shock Mounted get in the soft & smelly, & have to rely upon the Defensive Spears to come to their aid.
Erm, not ideal.....
Okay then, How would you use defensive spearmen in a Fatimid or Syrian States army?

MCollett
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Re: Spearmen

Post by MCollett » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:55 pm

NZsam03 wrote:What about Armoured, Average, Undrilled, Defensive spear then?
My take on Defensive spear is that they need to be apparently soft enough to encourage the enemy to engage them (rather than just skirmishing or avoiding them) while in fact being tough enough to hang on until the more mobile or aggressive parts of the army have done their work. 'Armoured' fails on the first count, and 'Poor' on the second, making 'Average Protected' the sweet spot (as well as good value for points). If I did use armoured ones, I would expect to use them in a more aggressive fashion, and would accordingly probably prefer them drilled.

Too many of them in an army will reduce your tactical options, but I get good service from my usual quota of 4 groups of 8 in my Later Visigoths. Defensive spear are just as good as offensive at taunting shock mounted into unwise charges or at standing up to other heavy foot; not having the spear factor in the charge usually only matters against bowmen.
Oh, and since you live in Auckland too, where do you buy your figures from? (to balance figure price, quality and :shock: postage)
Sorry, you are asking the wrong person. I haven't bought many figures recently, and when I do considerations of price (including postage) come a distant last to those of historical accuracy, consistency of scale and quality of sculpting and casting: the time and effort spent painting so completely dwarf the cost of the figures that I see no point penny pinching.

Best wishes,
Matthew

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Post by hazelbark » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:32 pm

whitehorses wrote:Defensive Spears are good for:

Stoppers
Rear Support.


That's it. :P
Well stopping an opponent and then watching his lancers disintegrate on your shieldwall is pretty powerful

whitehorses
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Post by whitehorses » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:00 pm

Indupitably - but having a bunch of Impact Foot/Heavy Weapon/Off Sp/Pikes steam through the Def Sp without even breathing hard, whilst the Lancers sit on the Wings is prolly better :)
Well, not better for the poor sod with the Def Sp admittedly, but that's just a cross they must bear....

ShrubMiK
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Post by ShrubMiK » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:20 pm

And yet the defensive spear is as good as offensive spear once you charge it...? And cheaper.

whitehorses
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Post by whitehorses » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:23 pm

I remain unconvinced of taking Def Sp unless Armylist compulsory. :P

MCollett
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Post by MCollett » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:19 pm

ShrubMiK wrote:And yet the defensive spear is as good as offensive spear once you charge it...? And cheaper.
Indeed. It's quite satisfying to see drilled offensive spear at 8AP each charging enthusiastically into my undrilled defensive ones at 6AP each. The combat is absolutely even, and there's more of me ...

Best wishes,
Matthew

whitehorses
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Post by whitehorses » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:05 pm

Off. sp. if of same quality & armour & roughly the same numbers as the Def. Sp. should cut through them like a knife through butter.

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