Mongol Conquest 800AP, Feedback and advice please.

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lonehorseman
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Mongol Conquest 800AP, Feedback and advice please.

Post by lonehorseman » Thu May 20, 2010 11:11 am

Hi there. Finally got my EotD book today ( I hate South African postal service) so I made the Mongol list I been wanting at last.

Here it is:

1x IC (Genghis...Not going to change this no matter the reasoning LoL if its Mongols its Genghis and an IC)
2x TC (Should I have 3 or is this fine)

1x4 Cv/Armoured/Elite/Drilled/Bow/Swordsmen (Is the Elite overkill?)

2x4 Cv/Armoured/Superior/Drilled/Bow/Swordsmen (The punch for the army, is it enough?)

2x4 Cv/Protected/Superior/Drilled/Bow/Swordsmen (Back up for the LH, meant to frighten other LH etc...is it neccesary?)

2x4 LH/Unprotected/Superior/Drilled/Bow/Swordsmen #

3x4 LH/Unprotected/Superior/Drilled/Bow/Swordsmen #

2x4 LH/Unprotected/Superior/Undrilled/Bow/Swordsmen #

12BG PBI:+4 794AP

#: Should the LH be Average or Superior? Took Average as I reasoned one wants more shooters over re-rolls and the 2 Sup are only as I has spare points. The 2 Undrilled are in as it makes no difference and give the old DBM Steppe Auxilliaries a role.

Thanks for any advice in advance

Duane
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philqw78
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Post by philqw78 » Thu May 20, 2010 11:17 am

IMO,

IC good idea as you want to choose terrain
TC. All drilled so don't need more than 2. I could be tempted to take just an IC and FC with mongols if it improved to the layout/battle plan
Elites: Possibly overkill as its only 1 BG and very expensive.
Protected Cav. It they are to scare off LH they could be unprotected. You get twice as many dice. Depends if they are going to be 2 deep very often
LH Average. Are they going to fight HtH with other skirmishers. If yes take superior they live a lot longer since they need to lose 3 bases to autobreak.
phil
putting the arg into argumentative

grahambriggs
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Post by grahambriggs » Thu May 20, 2010 11:30 am

I think with this army elite or protected cavalry are not the best value. I can't think of anything the elites will beat that superiors wouldn't so would save the points.

Similarly I can't think of a job that the protected can do reliably that unprotected can't. So for me the cavalry are either superior armoured or unprotected.

The superior LH are good value in numbers. Few skirmishers will really want to fight them. The rerolling for shooting frequently seems to make a difference. Plus as Phil says they hang around a lot longer than average.

peteratjet
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Post by peteratjet » Thu May 20, 2010 1:05 pm

philqw78 wrote:IMO,

IC good idea as you want to choose terrain
TC. All drilled so don't need more than 2. I could be tempted to take just an IC and FC with mongols if it improved to the layout/battle plan
Eek!

with 12 battlegroups, 3 commanders is a risk. 4 would be better, 2 is crazy. You feel the lack of them for the bread-and-butter bolstering and combat leadership, not the fancy manouevring.

Protected Cv are generally pants. Sometimes you have no choice, but in this case, trade them in for another TC and some combination of LH and/or armoured Cv

lonehorseman
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Post by lonehorseman » Thu May 20, 2010 1:14 pm

Ok. . . So what I have reworked it to is:

1x IC
3x TC

3x4 Cv/Armoured/Superior/Drilled/Bow/Swordsmen
8x4 LH/Unprotected/Superior/Drilled/Bow/Swordsmen

11 BG PBI:+4 797AP

Sound better? Even if I drop the extra TC I still cannot get more troops other than converting a BG of LH to Armoured Cv.

Cheers

Duane
15mm: Painted: Late Republican Roman
Medieval Welsh
WIP: Ivan the Terrible's Russians
Later Ottoman Turkish

grahambriggs
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Post by grahambriggs » Thu May 20, 2010 1:21 pm

I wouldn't say that you need 4 generals with this lot but that's a matter of personal choice. I think what most people do here is to start making some of the light horse average to get it up to 12 BGs.

philqw78
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Post by philqw78 » Thu May 20, 2010 1:23 pm

peteratjet wrote:Eek!

with 12 battlegroups, 3 commanders is a risk. 4 would be better, 2 is crazy. You feel the lack of them for the bread-and-butter bolstering and combat leadership, not the fancy manouevring.

Protected Cv are generally pants. Sometimes you have no choice, but in this case, trade them in for another TC and some combination of LH and/or armoured Cv
Combat leadership with Mongols, why. They should not be in combat until they have shot themselves to advantage. Then they will not need the general in the front rank, ( who often dies). 4 general for 12 BG. I have done well in competition with 2 generals for 12BG. In fact would only consider more than 3 for 14+ BG or a knight army (which rarely gets 14+ BG) The bread and butter for Mongol generals is helping manouver. Which is why an FC is more cost effective. He covers a much greater area than 2 TC. The troops themselves are mostly superior so bolstering from shooting disruption will be rare especially with an IC and the large area covered by the FC. This umbrella should easily cover the threatened parts of such a small army.
phil
putting the arg into argumentative

lonehorseman
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Post by lonehorseman » Thu May 20, 2010 1:30 pm

Valid point on combat leadership...so here we go again with 2 commanders, a bit more Cv and some Ave Nomad buggers

1xIC
1xTC

4x4 Cv/Armoured/Drilled/Superior/Bow/Swordsmen
5x4 LH/Unprotected/Drilled/Superior/Bow/Swordsmen
3x4 LH/Unprotected/ Undrilled/Average/Bow/Swordsmen

12 BG PBI: +4 794AP
15mm: Painted: Late Republican Roman
Medieval Welsh
WIP: Ivan the Terrible's Russians
Later Ottoman Turkish

philqw78
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Post by philqw78 » Thu May 20, 2010 1:35 pm

or

IC 80
Fc 50
4 Cav 304
3AvLH 120
4SupLH 192
1UnProtCav 52
798
phil
putting the arg into argumentative

madmike111
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Post by madmike111 » Fri May 21, 2010 6:18 am

I actually liked the very first army the most. While others don;t like elites having one BG of 4 isn't that much more in pts.

Keep a few cav unarmoured or protected units as LH can't really do much but shoot. The cav can be useful for actually fighting.

I have already brought the figures for a Mongol army and plan to do something very much like your first one.

abal
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Post by abal » Thu May 27, 2010 2:55 pm

Ghengiz is off with the main army - this is part of the advance guard

1 TC C-in-C
1 FC
2 TC

All troops are drilled/bow/sword

1x4 Elite Armoured Cav
1x4 Superior Armoured Cav
2x4 Superior Protected Cav
6x4 Superior Unprotected LH
1x6 Superior Unprotected LH

The Elite with a TC are well worth it

The 6 base LH BG can be a bit unwieldy

alan

petedalby
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Post by petedalby » Thu May 27, 2010 7:36 pm

The downside of elites is that you struggle to provide rear support. But they are very tasty.
Pete

david53
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Post by david53 » Thu May 27, 2010 8:12 pm

Having used one form or other Mongols quite a bit just a few thoughts. These are only my experiences so others may completely disagree as is your right.

Now its all well going unprotected cavalry but if you hit an open event against any other Cavalry these will struggle yes you can shoot but against Cavalry Lancers you'll struggle, also against foot bows you'll struggle as a whole but its a small mobile compact hard army, but the Cavalry do take a bit of handling to get right.

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