Welsh Armies

[lonehorseman]

Hey there.

Which of the Welsh Armies: LAter Welsh or Medieval Welsh is better for Open Comps (I have a Glyndwr welsh army for DBM). Also which way would you structure a list (WOuld you use LH or more MF Logbows or what). Also if anyone can think of any example lists I would be grateful

Thanks

Duane

[timmy1]

You might want to PM Hammy (James Hamilton) - I believe he has used the MF Longows version and it looks really scary if you are facing it with knights.

[lonehorseman]

Have made this lost so far:

1xIC, 2xTC

2x6 LF Unprotected Undrilled Average Longbows
2x4 LH Unprotected Undrilled Average Lancer Swordsmen
3x8 MF Unprotected Undrillled Average Offensive Spearmen
2x8 MF Unprotected Undrilled Average Longbows
1x8 MF Protected Undrilled Average Longbow Swordsmen
1x4 Cv Armoured Undrilled Superior Lancer Swordsmen

French Ally:
1x TC
1x4 Kn Heavily Armoured Undrilled Superior Lancer Swordsmen
1x4 MF Protected Undrilled Average Crossbows

13 BG 795AP

What do you think

[hazelbark]

I think the unprotected MF Offensive Spear turn out to be less than we hope.

They can get shot up, but they really required a touch more of luck or terrain I found.

Usually they are never better than tied on POAs.

I would put more faith in the longbows.

[recharge]

The unprotected spearmen better pray for terrain and no one in charge range. My Pictish didn't fare too well in an open tourney

John

[lonehorseman]

So I made a Later Welsh List:

1xIC
2xTC
2x6 LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light Spear
2x6 LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Longbow
2x4 LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Lancer Swordsmen
5x8 MF Unprotected Average Undrilled Longbow
1x4 Cv Armoured Superior Unndrilled Lancer Swordsmen
Marcher Ally
1xTC
1x4 Kn H.Armoured Superior Undrilled Lancer Swordsmen
1x6 HF Protected Average Undrilled Defensive Spearmen

Thoughts? LH can also be JLS

[Dareun]

So I made a Later Welsh List:

1xIC
2xTC
2x6 LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Javelins Light Spear
2x6 LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Longbow
2x4 LH Unprotected Average Undrilled Lancer Swordsmen
5x8 MF Unprotected Average Undrilled Longbow
1x4 Cv Armoured Superior Unndrilled Lancer Swordsmen
Marcher Ally
1xTC
1x4 Kn H.Armoured Superior Undrilled Lancer Swordsmen
1x6 HF Protected Average Undrilled Defensive Spearmen

Thoughts? LH can also be JLS

Don't you risk to be stampeded to death by cavalery army? either a nomad or a lancer army (vandal) with multiple layers of skimishers could go to your line in a fast manner and crush them before you can react. (no impact POA no melee POA and unprotected - welcome to the slaughterhouse)

I'm either not thinking about a flank march.

To my eyes your list lacks an anchor in terms of HF spearman something, and your 6def spearman from your ally wont be enough.

That being said with an IC and 14 mounted you got some chances to get the terrain you like...

[Mehrunes]

The Welsh list offers no HF spearmen anchor. It can get MF Offensive Spearmen, but they are Unprotected. Which should be no difference against any serious cavalry BG.

[philqw78]

Don't you risk to be stampeded to death by cavalery army? either a nomad or a lancer army (vandal) with multiple layers of skimishers could go to your line in a fast manner and crush them before you can react. (no impact POA no melee POA and unprotected - welcome to the slaughterhouse)

I'm either not thinking about a flank march.

To my eyes your list lacks an anchor in terms of HF spearman something, and your 6def spearman from your ally wont be enough.

That being said with an IC and 14 mounted you got some chances to get the terrain you like...

You underestimate the power of so much longbow against cavalry Dareun. But a HYW army is better at that. It all depends on how you want to fight. Take a welsh ally to fill any terrain with off sp. Its like Picts with machine guns.

[Dareun]

Hi Phil (nice new outfit by the way )

I was thinking of coming as close as possible with cav lancer with a layer of LF in front and unfortunately miss the "retain them to charge" test.
ok the LF screen gonna rout right after the charge for being frag and burst in by the chargers, but why not?
The cav doesn't get shot and the only advantage is the extra dice for the shot at impact...

ok that for the plan A and i dont have yet a plan B (besides flank march and taking advantage of the undrilled status of the MF)...

I got the feeling that the list lacks of some units able to exploit the situation created by the longbow. Ok there are 2bg of LH 1 of cav lancer and 1 of knight but they are likely to be isolated quickly and swallow up once far away from the line.
In case they are teamed up, a flank may be vulnerable to enemy inflitration...

the LF longbow sounds great. I will have a check on the rules tonight on how effective they could be!

cheers

[philqw78]

Hi Phil (nice new outfit by the way )

I like the stockings

I was thinking of coming as close as possible with cav lancer with a layer of LF in front and unfortunately miss the "retain them to charge" test.
ok the LF screen gonna rout right after the charge for being frag and burst in by the chargers, but why not?
The cav doesn't get shot and the only advantage is the extra dice for the shot at impact...

ok that for the plan A and i dont have yet a plan B (besides flank march and taking advantage of the undrilled status of the MF)...

The problem with that is not all the cav failing the test. Which could mean a single 4 base BG double overlapped for the melee. So at impact you get 4 dice at ++. He gets 4 dice at -- and 2 dice at evens. Slight advantage to the cav. In melee, providing no-one disrupts 4 dice at ++ against 8 dice at --. Even odds. If the foot do not disrupt the cav bounce off and get shot properly for 2 turns. Its a seat of your pants affair. But a lot of fun. The cav should,... probably... win.

[hazelbark]

The other thing that can be very helpful to the bow is having a general to committ at impact. The 2nd rank dice getting a re-roll give you the ability to get lucky at impact and mess up the charger.

I would use this rule of thumb for committing generals to bow at impact
If you are only down 1 POA always commit.
If you are -- POA and Bow versus HA KN or Armored foot then don't unless you need to get lucky to survive.

[Dareun]

I believed a general could boost moral only for close combat and not for shootings.
So at impact he couldnt boost the 2nd rank, could he?

[lonehorseman]

I see the point you guys are making. Well I think I will just have to go HYW and have all the Longbowmen as Welsh

[philqw78]

I believed a general could boost moral only for close combat and not for shootings.
So at impact he couldnt boost the 2nd rank, could he?

In impact a general does increase the re-roll quality for bow as they are close combat dice. In the FAQ.