Unprotected undrilled average MF bow are 5 points.If unprotected undrilled average MF bow were only 5 points they would IMO be pretty good value.
Paul
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Probably explains why they are OK thenelysiumsolutions@fsmail.n wrote:Hammy saidUnprotected undrilled average MF bow are 5 points.If unprotected undrilled average MF bow were only 5 points they would IMO be pretty good value.
Paul
Now who's talking complete and utter tosh?NickW wrote:The problem is the same issue as with DBM - the points system does not relate to the abilities of the troops.
Really?NickW wrote:The problem is the same issue as with DBM - the points system does not relate to the abilities of the troops.
Protected is only of any use if your opponents shoot or if thy are less than armoured.NickW wrote:Numerous comments about ineffective or underpriced troop types bears that out.
Most specifically on the unprotected v. protected MF, surely no one thinks the difference is worth just one point, when it has an enormous effect on shooting and a big effect on melee.
I think the points system generally doesn't fully reflect the benefit of what you're buying. For example, add a sword for bowmen is really quite useful as that POA makes a big difference in melee (a swing from 33% chance to hit to 50%). It only costs 1 pt, so for a BG of 8 you'd probably spend 8 pts nearly every time, especially given that you can't do much else with 8 pts. I hear similar comments about 'Superior' and 'Armoured', etc. When upgrades become obvious then the points system isn't properly reflective of the abilities IMO.
I have always found NKE to be competative.ethan wrote:The problem is what this statement means for the rest of the army...dave_r wrote:They most certainly are not rubbish. They are very effective in the NKE. They are some of the best troops in the army.NickW wrote:The Egyptian archers are drilled and they're still rubbish at 6 pts.
Yes, the idea of needing to compare right across the different troop types and matchups is certainly a fair comment. But, on the whole the extra 1 pt each for protection and sword are great value for archers, especially when consider the majority of stuff that should be on table.hammy wrote:Protected is only of any use if your opponents shoot or if thy are less than armoured.NickW wrote:Numerous comments about ineffective or underpriced troop types bears that out.
Most specifically on the unprotected v. protected MF, surely no one thinks the difference is worth just one point, when it has an enormous effect on shooting and a big effect on melee.
I think the points system generally doesn't fully reflect the benefit of what you're buying. For example, add a sword for bowmen is really quite useful as that POA makes a big difference in melee (a swing from 33% chance to hit to 50%). It only costs 1 pt, so for a BG of 8 you'd probably spend 8 pts nearly every time, especially given that you can't do much else with 8 pts. I hear similar comments about 'Superior' and 'Armoured', etc. When upgrades become obvious then the points system isn't properly reflective of the abilities IMO.
Swordsman for a bowman is great IF you are not fighting spears of superior swordsmen.
There are a lot of capabilities in FoG that you have to pay for yet only work some of the time depending on your opposition.
Look at protected impact foot swordsmen. A nice package of capabilities until you end up facing armoured impact foot skilled swordsmen. If there were such a thing as unprotected impact foot non swordsmen they would be just as effective against the armoured impact foot skilled swordsmen and cost 5 points rather than 7.
I have found the MF unprotected Bows can be useful if used carefully, I find they are especially helpful in supporting your LH against enemy LH.NickW wrote:Yes, they will beat LH in a shooting match, but the LH are most likely not going to come up and fight them front on or at all, and of course LH are far more usable and far less vulnerable.philqw78 wrote:But they are better in a shooting match and melee than Bw LH. And Bw LH cost more.
Quite so. Any MF will butcher LH in combat (not given extreme dice) so your LH can charge with impunity knowing that if the enemy LH stand then they will get butchered from the MF, if they evade then you have a chance of catching them! What's not to like.ethan wrote:I have found the MF unprotected Bows can be useful if used carefully, I find they are especially helpful in supporting your LH against enemy LH.NickW wrote:Yes, they will beat LH in a shooting match, but the LH are most likely not going to come up and fight them front on or at all, and of course LH are far more usable and far less vulnerable.philqw78 wrote:But they are better in a shooting match and melee than Bw LH. And Bw LH cost more.