parthians

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footslogger
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parthians

Post by footslogger » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:22 pm

I have this Sassanid army (early with cataphracts and clibinarii) and I keep shedding units of heavies for more horse archers. Makes me think I might want to do parthians. I was toying around with a list and came up with vaguely
4xTC
7ish 4xLH, B
4ish 6xmissile armed LF
16 or 18 cataphracts

I'm thinking that what one wants to do with this is probably take 3x6 cataphracts and keep them together for the punch and use the LF and LH to harass everything else. Is that the way folks use these? Any thoughts on whether 3x6 or 4x4 cataphracts suit these guys better?

I also toyed around with Palmyrans but keep coming back to Parthians.

All input welcomed.

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Post by berthier » Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:36 am

I too have been playing with the Parthians.

The list I have been looking at has

1 IC
3 TCs
2 x6 Javelins LF Poor
2 x6 Sling LF Poor
1 x6 bow LF Poor
8 x4 LH bow Average
4 x4 Cataphracts Superior

With the undrilled Cataphracts, the IC will come in handy for all any CMTs as well as getting Steppe terrain.

Christopher Anders

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Post by MatthewP » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:30 am

I've tried a few versions of the parthians and so far my faourite version is;

4 * tc
10 * 4 LH bow
4 * 4 cataphracts
2 * 6 poor bw
1 * 6 poor sl

17 bgs in all.

I dont use the ic. Going first is very important with this army as the weakness of the lh menas your flanks will be forced back by virtually everything else. You need plenty of space to retreat into to allow time for your bow to be effective. Having 10 bg of LH means you nearly always outnumber your opponents which is very useful.

I have tried the cats in sixes and although they are far tougher than 4's , three bgs is just not enough to deal with multiple threats. you nearly always end up being flank charged. Although with four bgs of cats you sometimes have to commit more genrals to control them so try and keep them in battlelines of two bg's for as long as possible.

The LF are useful as cheap filler and can also contribute to shooting and occupy that inevitable peice of rough difficult terrain. Always fight in the steppe if you get the choice.

Good luck

Matthew

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Post by BlackPrince » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:28 am

Mathew does not selecting the terrain cause your Parthians grief?
Keith

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Post by MatthewP » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:35 am

Mathew does not selecting the terrain cause your Parthians grief?
Sometimes but most opponents take agricultural and you can use a large open field as a compulsary and two open spaces. Rough terrain is not to bad for light horse and any difficult can be occupied by your light foot. Doesn't always work like this but going first is a bigger advantage than ocasional bad terrian is a disadvantage.

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Post by list_lurker » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:28 am

Mathew does not selecting the terrain cause your Parthians grief?
Another side effect of placing <bad> terrain is it allows you to 2nd guess where your opponent will deploy - usually using a bit of going as an anchor. Allows you to put the Cat in the right place.... because those boys really manoeuver like cows ! :)

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Post by MatthewP » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:31 am

because those boys really manoeuver like cows !
Three legged arthritic cows!

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Post by dave_r » Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:22 pm

MatthewP wrote:
because those boys really manoeuver like cows !
Three legged arthritic cows!
Yeah, but so do your light horse!

They certainly fight like they are arthritic and only have three legs....

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Post by expendablecinc » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:01 pm

There have been a few threads on cataphract army composition on this forum and a fairly common view is undrilled in 6's but drilled in 4's (eg palmyran/seleucid)

I tried a parthian list with 2*6 and 1* 4 which seemed quite good but I wanted the extra points for an IC.

Another version worth a shot had 20 cataphracts!
1IC & 1TC
2* 6 poor javelinmen
2* 6 poor slingers
6 drilled MF city militia (offensive spear)
4* 4 horse archers
4*4 cataphracts

hatran ally
4*4 cataphract camels
4 horse archers
6 average archers LF

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Post by MatthewP » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:52 pm

Yeah, but so do your light horse!

They certainly fight like they are arthritic and only have three legs....
I learnt it all from you Dave :wink:

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Post by MatthewP » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:48 pm

common view is undrilled in 6's but drilled in 4's (eg palmyran/seleucid)
I have tried both of these. Sixes are definately tougher and very useful if fighting a static opponent such as a foot army. Where they tend to come unstuck is against a mobile army such as a asian city states were three bg's are just not enough to cope with a manouverable opponent who can come round your flanks. In this case fours are better.

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Post by deadtorius » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:44 pm

I have tried both 4's and 6's with cataphracts and if you use them for the main punch I find the 6's have more hitting and staying power than a unit of 4's does. Being undrilled its pretty much place them and send them forward to roll over whatever is in their path. I can see where a more mobile opponent could dance out of the way and add to your frustrations.
If they are my main attack force I think I would prefer 6's, just from personal experience. Makes them a little less vulnerable to LF with missiles and more likely to survive in melee.

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Post by BlackPrince » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:31 pm

Mathew what about dropping one of the LH BGs and using the points to make one Cat BG 6 figures? If the points work out ok yes you drop to 16 BGs it still makes it a swarm.
Keith

It was better to leave disputing about the faith to the theologians and just run argumentative non-believers through with the sword (Louis IX).

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Post by BlackPrince » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:58 am

Mathew when using this army how do you deal with enemy Elephants?
Keith

It was better to leave disputing about the faith to the theologians and just run argumentative non-believers through with the sword (Louis IX).

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Post by MatthewP » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:06 am

Mathew what about dropping one of the LH BGs and using the points to make one Cat BG 6 figures? If the points work out ok yes you drop to 16 BGs it still makes it a swarm.
That is an option. However it is the LH shooting that will take out most of the enemy bgs. Plus a lot of the LH you will face will be steppe types with sword and the only way you can deal with these is to out number them so the more LH you have the more effective the army. An extra couple of cats would be useful but in my opinion not as useful as a full bg of LH.

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Post by MatthewP » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:18 am

Mathew when using this army how do you deal with enemy Elephants?
Shove some LH at them and prey they never get to reach your cataphracts. Haven't actually faced elephants with the parthians yet but I would keep the cats as far away as possible and try and shoot them down. You dont count armour or lance and are disrupted so combat is definately not good.

I sometime take elephants with the parthian (indo parthian version) if I expect to face knights. They make that fight slightly more even. It usually means sacrificing the light foot and only having 13 or so bgs.

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Post by shall » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:57 am

This is the Parthian I used at the challenge this year. I found the 3 general using an IC to work really well. 16 BGs. IC keeps the swarm of poor skirmishers around while the cataphracts manouvre behind to find juicy targets - or try to run from medival knights!!

Si
  • C-in-C IC
    Sub General TC
    Sub General TC

    Cataphracts Ct Superior Undrilled Heavily armoured - Lancers Swordmen - 6
    Cataphracts Ct Superior Undrilled Heavily armoured - Lancers Swordmen - 4
    Cataphracts Ct Superior Undrilled Heavily armoured - Lancers Swordmen - 4
    Cataphracts Ct Superior Undrilled Heavily armoured - Lancers Swordmen - 4
    City Militia Javelinmen LF Poor Undrilled Unprotected Javelins Light spear - - 6
    City Militia Bowmen LF Average Undrilled Unprotected Bow - - - 6
    City Militia Bowmen LF Average Undrilled Unprotected Bow - - - 6
    City Militia Slingers LF Poor Undrilled Unprotected Sling - - - 6
    City Militia Slingers LF Poor Undrilled Unprotected Sling - - - 8
    Horse Archers LH Average Undrilled Unprotected Bow - - - 4
    Horse Archers LH Average Undrilled Unprotected Bow - - - 4
    Horse Archers LH Average Undrilled Unprotected Bow - - - 4
    Horse Archers LH Average Undrilled Unprotected Bow - - - 4
    Horse Archers LH Average Undrilled Unprotected Bow - - - 4
    Horse Archers LH Average Undrilled Unprotected Bow - - - 4
    Horse Archers LH Average Undrilled Unprotected Bow - - - 4
Simon Hall
"May your dice roll 6s (unless ye be poor)"

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Post by MatthewP » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:16 pm

IC keeps the swarm of poor skirmishers around while the cataphracts manouvre behind to find juicy targets
Did you just use the words 'cataphracts' and 'manouvre' in the same sentence. Another argument for an IC maybe.

shall
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Post by shall » Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:14 pm

Indeed it was partof the reason for the IC.

Si
Simon Hall
"May your dice roll 6s (unless ye be poor)"

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