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Santa Hermandad Nueva Castilian

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:50 pm
by lonehorseman
Hi there, the girlfriend is having a look at the army (guess who gets to paint it) and I was stumped when she asked if she should take the Armoured Offensive/Defensive Spear in 4's, The Crossbows in 4s and whether she should use any pike besides the Swiss.

Now I usually play with Ottomans and Mongols so was kind of stumped by this infantry question not having any experience in how long the 4paks last in melee. Shooting wise the armored usually helps so I don't see a problem there

Thanks in advance

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:34 pm
by MatthewP
I take my armoured offensive spear in two units of 8. 4's are too vunerable. The compulsary defensive spear i keep as protected and take the minimum. They make good rear support.

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:38 pm
by Robert241167
Hi there

I've used the Santa Doodies a little and prefer the spear in 8's and the crossbow in 4's.

Basically a 4 of crossbow can the rear support 2 8's of spear and a general in combat effects 8 bases rather than 4.

I've only used the spear rather than the average pike as the average pike come out of the same entitlement.

Rob

Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:53 pm
by Fluffy
Spears need to be in bigger groups as the don't take base loss well, I would advise 8 if possible, but 6 is ok.

Ranged MF in general take in 8's if your want shooting power (I know doesn't really apply to Xbow), but a smaller group can be nice for a support function.

I usually run my supporting bow/Xbow MF in 6's because that is usually the min for some reason, I actually think 4's would work out better overall, but haven't tried it.

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:58 pm
by lonehorseman
After all the above advise this is the end list I came up with:

1x IC, 2x TX

4x LH/Prot/ Ave/ Jav/Light Spear/ Undrilled

4x LH/Prot/ Ave/ Jav/Light Spear/ Undrilled

4x LF/Prot/ Ave/Firearm/Drilled

4x LF/Prot/ Ave/Firearm/Drilled

4x MF/Prot/ Ave/Crossbow/Drilled

4x MF/Prot/ Ave/Crossbow/Drilled

4x HF/Prot/ Ave/ Defensive Spearmen/ Drilled

4x HF/Prot/ Ave/ Defensive Spearmen/ Drilled

8x HF/Arm/ Ave/Offensive Spearmen/ Drilled

8x HF/Arm/ Ave/Offensive Spearmen/ Drilled

8x HF/Prot/Sup/Pikemen/ Drilled (Swiss)

4x MF/Arm/ Sup/ Skilled Sword/Drilled

4x MF/Arm/ Sup/ Skilled Sword/ Drilled

4x Kn/ H. Arm/ Sup/ Lancer Sword/ Drilled (Military Orders)

I then play tested it against Medieval Crown of Aragon (Sorry Fluffy but the list you played was indeed without LF Javs), although I won it was only be a small margin (He would have got me off 2 more BG breaks), so I did a bit more thinking. This is the revised list I came up with ran along the lines of:

4xTC (IC is useful but not really necessary as the Def Spear are for rear support and Most shooting is at a - to me in any case.)

4x Jinetes LH/Prot/Jav/ LS/ Undrilled

4x Jinetes LH/Prot/Jav/ LS/ Undrilled (these did just fine as they were)

4x Adalides LF/ UnProt/Jav/ LS/ Undrilled

4x Adalidesn LF/ UnProt/Jav/ LS/ Undrilled (These would really have been useful in fighting other bow/sling armed LF or just to scout and harass)

4x Arquebusiers LF/ UnProt/Firearm/ Drilled

4x Arquebusiers LF/ UnProt/Firearm/ Drilled (Prot is a temptation to let them fight other LF and they do their job well enough without)

4x Hermandad Crossbowmen MF/Prot/ Ave/Crossbow/Drilled

4x Hermandad Crossbowmen MF/Prot/ Ave/Crossbow/Drilled (Use for Rear support and shooting at stray Kn only, keep far far away from any terrain where ANYTHING else might want to be)

4x Other Hermandad Spearmen HF/Prot/ Ave/ Defensive Spearmen/ Drilled

4x Other Hermandad Spearmen HF/Prot/ Ave/ Defensive Spearmen/ Drilled (Decent for rear support useful to cover a gap in a pinch)

8x Santa Hermandad Nueva Spearmen HF/Arm/ Ave/Offensive Spearmen/ Drilled

8x Santa Hermandad Nueva Spearmen HF/Arm/ Ave/Offensive Spearmen/ Drilled (Works great supporting the swiss)

8x Swiss Pikemen HF/Prot/Sup/Pikemen/ Drilled (They did what swiss do best :D No complaints)

4x Hermandad Sword and Buckler Men MF/Arm/ Sup/ Skilled Sword/Drilled

4x Hermandad Sword and Buckler Men MF/Arm/ Sup/ Skilled Sword/ Drilled (did their job, next time will use together in one RGo. Too weak alone)

4x Men at ArmsKn/ H. Arm/ Sup/ Lancer Sword/ Undrilled (Did not find the drilled to be as useful as I would have found some more LF)

Any opinions/advice?

Ta

D

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:06 pm
by Robert241167
Hi again

Further advice as requested:

- 4 TC's is the way I like to go to get that first double move across the table.
- I wouldn't take the 4 base protected crossbow as well as the 4 base protected defensive spearmen. The 4 base protected crossbow fill in my dual role of rear support or additional unit on the flank if needed. I usually take just the 1 and a little more light horse than you.

Rob

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:45 pm
by lonehorseman
So take the absolute minimum crossbows and the 2 spear 4packs or 6 spear (minimum) and crossbow minimum?

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:55 pm
by Robert241167
I have tended to take my defensive spear as an 8 of armoured to anchor my line on. You can angle them so that anything wanting to get on the flanks of the other BG's has to get past them first. Also they don't charge off when you don't want them to.

I have stopped using the sword & buckler men as against good players it is very hard to get on a flank and they are not good impact troops unless hitting a flank.

If you PM me your e-mail address I will send you my latest version that I use.

Rob

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:06 pm
by Fluffy
(Use for Rear support and shooting at stray Kn only, keep far far away from any terrain where ANYTHING else might want to be)
Teaching this lesson was my pleasure and I'm sure my Almughavars enjoyed it too.

I agree that more LH is a good idea.
The Xbow and def spear do the same thing, rather go for the min of each (4Xbow and 6 spear) and use the points for LH.
Or Beef up the def spear (group of 6 with armour) and give them a different function.