Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

[devoncop]

If Yaitz should be an actor (albeit a B Movie chick flick type ) then ledo is missing his calling in the diplomatic corps.

As it happens a position as Governor General of certain troublesome lands in the Levant may soon become available if he wishes to apply......(Experience of dealing patiently or otherwise with bombastic religious sects is an advantage)

[Yaitz331]

Stop with the bluster. We have told you what we want you to do; return to our former deal. Now please, tell us what you want us to do. We cannot do what you want us to do if we do not know what it is that you want us to do. If you continue to ignore this question, it will be made clear that all you wish for is the death of the Jewish people.

I am still waiting to hear what it is that Ptolemy wants us to do. I can't even give in right now; I have no clue what Ptolemy wants of me.

[lecrop]

Only one nation has been shown to be an expansionist threat to her neighbours .....and it has not been Egypt ......

Britania!!

Well that is certainly one interpretation ......

I hope you are learning the Belgae language is my only advice

Bien sûr!

[ledo]

I'd be interested to see a screenshot of the map of the disputed area. Judea may have grown 15 fold but those are probably <5 population regions that wouldn't be necessarily classified as "useful" until early mid-game.

Any of the participants care to entertain the popcorn eaters with some visuals from this hugely popular multiplayer game?

I too wonder where the expansion has happened but Syria, Palestine and Phoenicia sounds like Antigonus might have given up some territory.

[devoncop]

I'd be interested to see a screenshot of the map of the disputed area. Judea may have grown 15 fold but those are probably <5 population regions that wouldn't be necessarily classified as "useful" until early mid-game.

Any of the participants care to entertain the popcorn eaters with some visuals from this hugely popular multiplayer game?

I too wonder where the expansion has happened but Syria, Palestine and Phoenicia sounds like Antigonus might have given up some territory.

I am not technologically savvy enough to do screenshots but when the turn comes back I shall produce a list of currently held Judean regions obtained from the Defence Ministry in Alexandria itself !

[ledo]

I'd be interested to see a screenshot of the map of the disputed area. Judea may have grown 15 fold but those are probably <5 population regions that wouldn't be necessarily classified as "useful" until early mid-game.

Any of the participants care to entertain the popcorn eaters with some visuals from this hugely popular multiplayer game?

I too wonder where the expansion has happened but Syria, Palestine and Phoenicia sounds like Antigonus might have given up some territory.

I am not technologically savvy enough to do screenshots but when the turn comes back I shall produce a list of currently held Judean regions obtained from the Defence Ministry in Alexandria itself !

I guess it's hard if the game isn't in window mode, but if it is, the snip it tool can make it pretty easy.

[Yaitz331]

Stop with the bluster. We have told you what we want you to do; return to our former deal. Now please, tell us what you want us to do. We cannot do what you want us to do if we do not know what it is that you want us to do. If you continue to ignore this question, it will be made clear that all you wish for is the death of the Jewish people.

I am still waiting to hear what it is that Ptolemy wants us to do. I can't even give in right now; I have no clue what Ptolemy wants of me.

With Ptolemy stubbornly refusing to tell us what it is he wants of us, it has become quite clear that Ptolemy's only intent is the military conquest of the Levant.

[devoncop]

Turn 24

A turn where the die was cast in the Levant as Judean troops stormed the Capital region of Nabatea, ignoring warnings and proceeded to starve out the garrison. To every action...there is a reaction.

Significant moves in north western Europe where the Belgae have moved decisively across the channel into southern Britain and are now bordering the Britonae in the central belt....to add to the Britonae woes news punitive tax laws introduced have sparked riots among their restive population.......

In Spain the Iberii are making excellent progress against both the Lusitanii and the Celtiberi, with the latter being reduced to just two regions in the Hispania Ulterior province.

An interesting quirk is that at present imperilled Bactria, suffering greatly from the rampages of the Saka horsemen and Dacia are now generating more Legacy per turn than any other nation in the game......

In ferocious fighting in the East Maurya has been reduced to just 10 disperate regions by the Seleucid/Antigonid unholy Alliance .

In a surprising move Rhodes continues to resist against an Antigonid siege......

[devoncop]

Stop with the bluster. We have told you what we want you to do; return to our former deal. Now please, tell us what you want us to do. We cannot do what you want us to do if we do not know what it is that you want us to do. If you continue to ignore this question, it will be made clear that all you wish for is the death of the Jewish people.

I am still waiting to hear what it is that Ptolemy wants us to do. I can't even give in right now; I have no clue what Ptolemy wants of me.

With Ptolemy stubbornly refusing to tell us what it is he wants of us, it has become quite clear that Ptolemy's only intent is the military conquest of the Levant.

Remind me....when did you send your request for peace......it seems to have failed to arrive to absolutely no-one's surprise in the Palace of Ptolemy.................

[Yaitz331]

A turn where the die was cast in the Levant as Judean troops stormed the Capital region of Nabatea, ignoring warnings and proceeded to starve out the garrison. To every action...there is a reaction.

Actually, I'm not besieging it. My troops are moving through it to the south, to repel the Arabian invasion of Judean territory proper. I have no intention of besieging Petra.

Remind me....when did you send your request for peace......it seems to have failed to arrive to absolutely no-one's surprise in the Palace of Ptolemy.................

What are Ptolemy's preconditions for peace? We cannot offer peace if we do not know what Ptolemy's conditions would be for such a peace.

Judea wants a fair peace. If Ptolemy, too, wants a fair peace - something which Judea doubts, seeing as how Ptolemy has already broken a deal made in good faith between Judea and Ptolemy over Arabia - Judea will happily negotiate such a peace. If Ptolemy does not wish a fair peace, then Judea has no choice but to go to war.

[devoncop]

"A fair peace" involves only retaining Judean regions prior to the Judean latest expansion. You have just seized yet another region in Nabatea Province and formed another complete Province.

This is not acceptable.

Hopefully that is now clear.

You should be aware that if you continue moving South West through Nabatea you are likely to collide with Egyptian peacekeeping forces in Nabatea.

Any consequences of this decision will be solely the responsibility of the unbelievably reckless High Priests.

Should this happen the Ptolemaic Diplomatic Corps will wash their hands of the whole mess and the military commanders in the area will take full control.....

[Yaitz331]

"A fair peace" involves only retaining Judean regions prior to the Judean latest expansion. You have just seized yet another region in Nabatea Province and formed another complete Province.

This is not acceptable.

That other region in the Nabatea province was in full accordance with our treaty at the beginning, in which Judea was given a free hand in Nabatea Province outside of the areas controlled by Nabatea.

Hopefully that is now clear.

It is not clear why Ptolemy would have an interest in forbidding Judea from expanding into empty desert. Does Ptolemy have some desire to keep Judea weak so that it can invade at any time?

You should be aware that if you continue moving South West through Nabatea you are likely to collide with Egyptian peacekeeping forces in Nabatea.

Judea is currently only moving southeast, to recapture the regions taken from Judea by the aggressive Arabia.


Judea suggests the following offer:

Judea will be permitted to retake the regions captured by Arabia, as well as the one region already agreed to between Judea and Ptolemy. Judea will also retain any Nabatean regions captured during the war. Besides this, Judea will not attack any sovereign nations within Ptolemy's sphere of influence (the Arabian Peninsula, North Africa up to Cyrenaica, and East Africa). In return, Ptolemy will not intervene in Judean conquest of areas that are not sovereign states, or that are outside of Ptolemy's sphere of influence.

We hope this offer will at least suffice to begin negotiations.

[devoncop]

"Judea will be permitted to retake the regions captured by Arabia, as well as the one region already agreed to between Judea and Ptolemy. Judea will also retain any Nabatean regions captured during the war. Besides this, Judea will not attack any sovereign nations within Ptolemy's sphere of influence (the Arabian Peninsula, North Africa up to Cyrenaica, and East Africa). In return, Ptolemy will not intervene in Judean conquest of areas that are not sovereign states, or that are outside of Ptolemy's sphere of influence".

This is in no way acceptable.

You are demanding, (from a position of weakness due to your own over expansion) the right to retain regions from countries that are either client states or allies of Egypt. Nabatea in return for being a client state has a justified expectation that Egypt will protect her territorial integrity. This is exactly what Egypt will do.

[Yaitz331]

"Judea will be permitted to retake the regions captured by Arabia, as well as the one region already agreed to between Judea and Ptolemy. Judea will also retain any Nabatean regions captured during the war. Besides this, Judea will not attack any sovereign nations within Ptolemy's sphere of influence (the Arabian Peninsula, North Africa up to Cyrenaica, and East Africa). In return, Ptolemy will not intervene in Judean conquest of areas that are not sovereign states, or that are outside of Ptolemy's sphere of influence".
This is in no way acceptable.

You are demanding, (from a position of weakness due to your own over expansion) the right to retain regions from countries that are either client states or allies of Egypt. Nabatea in return for being a client state has a justified expectation that Egypt will protect her territorial integrity. This is exactly what Egypt will do.

Judea will concede to return Nabatea's regions. However, the one region from Arabia has already been agreed to between Judea and Ptolemy in private diplomatic negotiations.

[jimwinsor]

"Judea will be permitted to retake the regions captured by Arabia, as well as the one region already agreed to between Judea and Ptolemy. Judea will also retain any Nabatean regions captured during the war. Besides this, Judea will not attack any sovereign nations within Ptolemy's sphere of influence (the Arabian Peninsula, North Africa up to Cyrenaica, and East Africa). In return, Ptolemy will not intervene in Judean conquest of areas that are not sovereign states, or that are outside of Ptolemy's sphere of influence".

This is in no way acceptable.

You are demanding, (from a position of weakness due to your own over expansion) the right to retain regions from countries that are either client states or allies of Egypt. Nabatea in return for being a client state has a justified expectation that Egypt will protect her territorial integrity. This is exactly what Egypt will do.

Since there are no mechanics for returning regions to NAB, a client state, I’m not sure what the point here is. Any attempt by PTO to “protect her territorial integrity” will do the opposite, adding reconquered regions to PTO, not NAB.

I think it needs to be realized that regions taken by JUD in its purely defense wars (number of actual DOWs issued in this conflict: ARA: 1, PTO: 1, NAB: 1, JUD: 0) are basically spilled milk and cannot, in all practicality, be “returned.” They might be released to independent status depending on the Loyalty there, but how can you make AI countries “retake” them? Answer: you can’t.

The best strategy for preserving NAB’s territorial integrity would have been for Egypt not to have declared war on JUD in the first place. Or at least have prepositioned forces to defend NAB regions prior to a DOW. Since Egypt did neither, it’s hardly in a position to complain here.

The only real practical peace solution here is JUD”s original offer. If JUD is asked to give up regions, let’s be honest here: those regions will go to PTO, and not anyone else. ARA and NAB’s “territorial integrity” has pretty much left the building.

[devoncop]

"Judea will be permitted to retake the regions captured by Arabia, as well as the one region already agreed to between Judea and Ptolemy. Judea will also retain any Nabatean regions captured during the war. Besides this, Judea will not attack any sovereign nations within Ptolemy's sphere of influence (the Arabian Peninsula, North Africa up to Cyrenaica, and East Africa). In return, Ptolemy will not intervene in Judean conquest of areas that are not sovereign states, or that are outside of Ptolemy's sphere of influence".

This is in no way acceptable.

You are demanding, (from a position of weakness due to your own over expansion) the right to retain regions from countries that are either client states or allies of Egypt. Nabatea in return for being a client state has a justified expectation that Egypt will protect her territorial integrity. This is exactly what Egypt will do.

Since there are no mechanics for returning regions to NAB, a client state, I’m not sure what the point here is. Any attempt by PTO to “protect her territorial integrity” will do the opposite, adding reconquered regions to PTO, not NAB.

I think it needs to be realized that regions taken by JUD in its purely defense wars (number of actual DOWs issued in this conflict: ARA: 1, PTO: 1, NAB: 1, JUD: 0) are basically spilled milk and cannot, in all practicality, be “returned.” They might be released to independent status depending on the Loyalty there, but how can you make AI countries “retake” them? Answer: you can’t.

The best strategy for preserving NAB’s territorial integrity would have been for Egypt not to have declared war on JUD in the first place. Or at least have prepositioned forces to defend NAB regions prior to a DOW. Since Egypt did neither, it’s hardly in a position to complain here.

The only real practical peace solution here is JUD”s original offer. If JUD is asked to give up regions, let’s be honest here: those regions will go to PTO, and not anyone else. ARA and NAB’s “territorial integrity” has pretty much left the building.

Egypt thanks the Seleucids for this "independent unbiased" analysis. It has yet to be established if this argument was composed in the Seleucid court or in Jerusalem by the High Priests themselves...


This all makes perfect sense if you accept the version of events presented by Judea.

Egypt did not make a proactive decision to declare war on Judea. Egypt (and automatically therefore Nabatea) were dragged into the war due to Judea attacking Arabia .....allegedly in response to the regular raids that Arabia is famous for.

The "truth" in this case seems to come down to whether a nation favours Judea or not in a broader sense than the specifics of this very local dispute.

To resolve this issue is simple. Judea withdraws its forces from the regions taken from both Nabatea and Arabia. These regions are then retaken within a few turns by either Nabatea,Arabia or if necessary Egypt. Egypt has no desire for further territorial expansion so it would be preferable if AI Nabatea and Arabia did the job.

Once this has happened Egypt will propose peace to Judea which once accepted with stop all Nabatean operations. Judea can then fight Arabia to a stalemate without seizing her lands if Arabia continues the fight.

Problem solved.

[Geffalrus]

I believe if Judea theoretically guarded it's border except for the to-be-sacrificed region, then the AI would likely go there. However, that's quite unit intensive to completely guard a border except for one area. Not sure if Judea can realistically afford that (our current war state makes it difficult for me to gauge his resources).

[Geffalrus]

Judea will concede to return Nabatea's regions. However, the one region from Arabia has already been agreed to between Judea and Ptolemy in private diplomatic negotiations.

The Strategikon Council of the Antigonid Kingdom applauds the forbearance and wisdom of the Judean People's Front.

[devoncop]

Judea will concede to return Nabatea's regions. However, the one region from Arabia has already been agreed to between Judea and Ptolemy in private diplomatic negotiations.

The Strategikon Council of the Antigonid Kingdom applauds the forbearance and wisdom of the Judean People's Front.

The Ptolemaic Court applauds the skill of Judean diplomats in persuading anyone outside the recently established "Centre for the Habitually Gullible" in Jerusalem that black is white and white is black with regard to Judean actions

[devoncop]

Nations should view the entry by Judea on 23rd August at 9.18am if they want to see what Egypt, Arabia and Nabatea have been dealing with....

"I have no intention of besieging Nabatea" and claiming Judean troops were just passing through the Nabatean Capital.

On 24th August...24 hours later Judean troops occupy the Nabatean Capital including the cultural icon that is Petra.

Egypt has restrained her troops long enough.

Judea has brought any and all consequences that follow upon herself.