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Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:40 am
by jimwinsor
13obo wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:58 pm
I'd be interested to see a screenshot of the map of the disputed area. Judea may have grown 15 fold but those are probably <5 population regions that wouldn't be necessarily classified as "useful" until early mid-game.

Any of the participants care to entertain the popcorn eaters with some visuals from this hugely popular multiplayer game?
The latest (including the recent fall of Petra):

Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (109.13 KiB) Viewed 273 times

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:06 am
by 13obo
That's an impressive size for Judea! How did it grow so much in Antigonid territory and still remain allies? Or was that a voluntary shrink made by them?

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:29 am
by Geffalrus
13obo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:06 am
That's an impressive size for Judea! How did it grow so much in Antigonid territory and still remain allies? Or was that a voluntary shrink made by them?
Voluntary. Seemed nicer than destroying them on turn 3 or 4, which is what I try to do when they're AI controlled.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:50 pm
by Geffalrus
Update from the Frontline:

(beep-beep-beepbeepbeep-beep-beep) *like those old timey dispatches in black and white WWII documentaries

Rhodes has fallen to the glorious Antigonid pacification army. A statue of Antigonus the One Eyed is now being built along the harbor.

Lysimakid bandits convinced the peaceful Bithynian people to attack their Antigonid neighbors. The mighty and powerful Army of the West fast marched from Thrace to punish the interlopers and restore order. Peace and prosperity in Anatolia is on the horizon.

The noble volunteers of the Antigonid Expeditionary Force have landed in India to protect Greek citizens from the depredations of the barbaric Mauryans. As would be expected of the Heirs of Alexander, a horde of barbarians was quickly put to flight by the well-oiled muscles of Macedon's finest flashing in the sun.

Are you doing your part to help make Alexander's Dream a reality? Young Peithon is. He collects scrap metal from the harbor and brings it to the Strategikon Recycling Center, ensuring a constant supply of equipment for the Army. Well done Peithon! He's doing his part, and so can you.

Would you like to learn more?

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:20 pm
by 13obo
Geffalrus wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:50 pm
the well-oiled muscles of Macedon's finest flashing in the sun.
Love me some well oiled men!

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:50 pm
by devoncop
Hyperactive these Antigonids aren't they ? :shock:

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:10 pm
by Yaitz331
devoncop wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:58 pm
This all makes perfect sense if you accept the version of events presented by Judea.

Egypt did not make a proactive decision to declare war on Judea. Egypt (and automatically therefore Nabatea) were dragged into the war due to Judea attacking Arabia .....allegedly in response to the regular raids that Arabia is famous for.

The "truth" in this case seems to come down to whether a nation favours Judea or not in a broader sense than the specifics of this very local dispute.

To resolve this issue is simple. Judea withdraws its forces from the regions taken from both Nabatea and Arabia. These regions are then retaken within a few turns by either Nabatea,Arabia or if necessary Egypt. Egypt has no desire for further territorial expansion so it would be preferable if AI Nabatea and Arabia did the job.

Once this has happened Egypt will propose peace to Judea which once accepted with stop all Nabatean operations. Judea can then fight Arabia to a stalemate without seizing her lands if Arabia continues the fight.

Problem solved.
Arabia has attacked Judea. If Ptolemy is unwilling to accept this basic fact, no further discussions can be had.
However, Judea will retreat from these regions, if Ptolemy funds the full cost of guarding all regions except for these. Judea will not pay money for Arabia's and Ptolemy's aggression against it.

If, as you claim, Ptolemy's being drawn into the war was automatic, then how do you explain the gap of several years in between the outbreak of war and Ptolemy's joining? It is my understanding that, if I truly was the aggressor, Ptolemy would have been drawn in immediately.
In addition, if Ptolemy truly believed his statements here, then why did he earlier tell Judea, quote, "Egypt will remain out of any Arabian/Judean conflict for now unless Judea tries to take the Arabian Capital." If Judea truly was the aggressor, then how come this deal was made, and how come it was broken?
devoncop wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:19 am
Nations should view the entry by Judea on 23rd August at 9.18am if they want to see what Egypt, Arabia and Nabatea have been dealing with....

"I have no intention of besieging Nabatea" and claiming Judean troops were just passing through the Nabatean Capital.

On 24th August...24 hours later Judean troops occupy the Nabatean Capital including the cultural icon that is Petra.

Egypt has restrained her troops long enough.

Judea has brought any and all consequences that follow upon herself.
I was only marching through. It is not my fault that the Nabatean capital surrendered in fear upon the passage of my army near their capital. I was not intending to besiege it; the Nabateans surrendered it in fear of a potential siege.

If Ptolemy refuses to accept the truth that Arabia declared war on Judea, then there evidently can be no negotiation. Judea has made every attempt to make peace, and it is manifest that the coming war is not Judea's fault.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:37 pm
by 13obo
Yaitz331 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:10 pm
I was only marching through. It is not my fault that the Nabatean capital surrendered in fear upon the passage of my army near their capital. I was not intending to besiege it; the Nabateans surrendered it in fear of a potential siege.
That sounds plausible! I bet the garrison all fell on their swords killing themselves and the doors opened, which was willed by Yahveh.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:08 pm
by Yaitz331
13obo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:37 pm
That sounds plausible! I bet the garrison all fell on their swords killing themselves and the doors opened, which was willed by Yahveh.
I was in Nabatea one turn as I was marching through it, and they surrendered in that turn. I just got REALLY lucky on the roll, I guess.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:20 pm
by 13obo
I'm very doubtful they surrendered... Unless you mean attacked you in the field but that would be strange.

1) There's no concept of "surrendering" in the game, only starving out the garrison.
2) Walls in Nabatea are level 2 and there's a King's Palace, which means there are palace guards with 2 hp / 3 effectiveness (I believe). This means they need at least 5 turns to be "starved out" if you drain 1hp per turn with lucky rolls.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:23 pm
by Yaitz331
13obo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:20 pm
I'm very doubtful they surrendered... Unless you mean attacked you in the field but that would be strange.
Yes, I mean they attacked me in the field. Their 8 guys sallied out against my 11 and were defeated heavily. The only reason I can think of is that I rolled really high on my siege and broke a wall despite having a -1, and they attacked rather than be assaulted, even though my troops were in the middle of leaving the province.

I'm just as confused by it as everyone else.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:44 pm
by 13obo
It's a bug actually I've seen too when passing by a walled region. Garrison attacks without being ordered, is defeated, and region is conquered. I had a multiplayer game where I conquered Rome like that.

Sorry for doubting you.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:44 pm
by devoncop
Yaitz331 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:23 pm
13obo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:20 pm
I'm very doubtful they surrendered... Unless you mean attacked you in the field but that would be strange.
Yes, I mean they attacked me in the field. Their 8 guys sallied out against my 11 and were defeated heavily. The only reason I can think of is that I rolled really high on my siege and broke a wall despite having a -1, and they attacked rather than be assaulted, even though my troops were in the middle of leaving the province.

I'm just as confused by it as everyone else.

Judeans still playing the victims I see 😏

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:01 pm
by Soar
13obo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:20 pm
1) There's no concept of "surrendering" in the game, only starving out the garrison.
There is according to the relevant manual section (10.9.4.). If the siege roll, modified by relative siege capacity, totals 16 or more, the defenders surrender. Given a sufficent difference in siege capacity (for example, because the besieger has a big enough stack of medium infantry), the odds of this happening are 1 in 10. The siege roll is made before the movement of armies is resolved, so it's possible for a city to surrender to an enemy army even when that army has been ordered to leave the region.

If the AI saw it was at a huge disadvantage in siege capacity so the city was doomed anyway if the siege continued, it might've ordered a sally to try to inflict some attrition while it still had the chance. Squaring that with what Yaitz331 said, I guess that would mean the turn resolution order goes sallies -> siege roll -> movement? However, I'm not personally familiar of the exact details of that aspect of turn resolution and I have seen people on the Steam forums complain that siege attrition gets applied before sallies. So maybe the real cause is the bug you mention in your later post.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:04 pm
by Yaitz331
devoncop wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:44 pm
Yaitz331 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:23 pm
13obo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:20 pm
I'm very doubtful they surrendered... Unless you mean attacked you in the field but that would be strange.
Yes, I mean they attacked me in the field. Their 8 guys sallied out against my 11 and were defeated heavily. The only reason I can think of is that I rolled really high on my siege and broke a wall despite having a -1, and they attacked rather than be assaulted, even though my troops were in the middle of leaving the province.

I'm just as confused by it as everyone else.
Judeans still playing the victims I see 😏
Let me quote the post several seconds before you:
13obo wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:44 pm
It's a bug actually I've seen too when passing by a walled region. Garrison attacks without being ordered, is defeated, and region is conquered. I had a multiplayer game where I conquered Rome like that.

Sorry for doubting you.
And Ptolemy should be sorry too.


And you haven't answered my refutation of your claim that Arabia attacked me that I posted earlier.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:21 pm
by devoncop
These discussions may well now have been superseded and become a footnote in history in any case....

Had Judea not chosen to deliberately invade Nabatea's capital things may still have been resolved.

Just like Icarus, Judea has chosen to fly too close to the sun.....

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:55 pm
by jimwinsor
The AI does on occasion choose to sally out of a siege. Its hard to say if its WAD or a bug in this case.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:55 am
by 13obo
I'm very certain it is a bug. In my MP game I was sieging Rome region which was player-controlled. The next turn I tried to move away from Latinum region, his army sallied and was defeated in an open battle. He was very surprised as much as I was that there was an open field fight that he lost leading to a captured Rome.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:18 am
by Yaitz331
devoncop wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:21 pm
These discussions may well now have been superseded and become a footnote in history in any case....

Had Judea not chosen to deliberately invade Nabatea's capital things may still have been resolved.

Just like Icarus, Judea has chosen to fly too close to the sun.....
I did not choose to deliberately invade Nabatea's capital. I was marching past when they attacked me from the fortress.

And, given that you aren't even trying to dispute my refutation of my supposed aggression, it is now clear to all observing that Arabia is the aggressor, and thus so is Ptolemy.

Re: Arranging MP Game....Interested ?

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:37 am
by devoncop
If you wished to "march past" then you wouldn't "march through" but gone via a different region ......nice try to defend the indefensible......

Coincidentally you are likely to find Petra exactly that very soon I suspect..... :wink: