Issue with Rebellions

[Toppins]

First off I need to say I'm loving my time with Empires so far. One little issue I've come across and I'm not sure it's technically a bug or just a design decision. The situation:

This happened as Rome, on Difficult AI, turn 30. I have all of Cisalpinia, Italia Superior, and Italia Inferior provinces under my control. Many slaves were captured during this rapid conquest. They mostly went to Rome early on before I built other slave markets, so Rome has 10 citizens to 20 slaves. I take a couple "sell slave" decisions to try to tamp down on the problem, but loyalty is too hard to control still (sitting around 30). I place an army with 100 combat power to garrison Rome until things calm down. Here is where it gets weird.

1) Slaves revolt and my army defeats them, but then retreats to an adjacent region
2) Rome is now controlled by Samnium and they have a fresh army spawned in
3) I'm not at war with this new version of Samnium, so I have to declare war and wait a turn to strike back
4) After I attack the next turn I then have to siege Rome and re-capture it.
5) My capital moved to Nicaea (!!!), a border region with 2 Celtic citizens and virtually no infrastructure. I can't move my capital back to Rome. The Senate building is now in Nicaea.

Now this is a bad experience for multiple reasons - first, I had an army garrisoned in Rome, and they won the battle, so I feel like I shouldn't have even lost the region. After that, the slave revolt turned into a former enemy that I was now at peace with, and I don't think any revolt that results in a new nation should start at peace with the nation it revolted from. Furthermore, this was a region that has only ever been controlled by my faction - shouldn't it have gone independent? Finally, I need to be able to move my capital back (is there a way to edit the save file to fix this?).

For those curious, the Populares Party, which was wildly popular thanks to my initial success, has barely held onto power and is now well liked again after I took a few more objectives and things settled down.

Thanks!

[loki100]

Good news is you can move your capital. You need to disband (takes a few turns) and then return to Rome.

Rest makes sense with the game mechanics. Basically slaves are a 'world nation' and often the game engine will replace them with a feasible faction.

General advice is that you expanded too fast, best with Rome early game is to clear decadence and slaves as you go - so take breaks. Remember it took Rome to 250 BCE to control Italy and another 30 years for the P.o. valey

[Toppins]

Why would I lose the region if I had an army garrisoned and I won the battle, though?

And why would I start at peace with a faction that just revolted? I'm OK with it being "Samnium", but you kinda just took my territory, we're not friends.

And regarding moving the capital back - I guess I you mean disband the Senate building? Then I can manually construct it wherever I want?

[loki100]

A revolt costs you the region, even if you win. So in a key region, you simply can't risk a revolt, hence the advice to slow down with Rome in early game. A rampage generates too many slaves to cope with

[Toppins]

If that's the case then there shouldn't even be a battle I think. Just from a gameplay perspective it feels really bad as a player to win a battle and then lose the region. Needs to be communicated better somehow. Again, I'm OK with the balance consideration here. It was a minor speedbump for me, though it could be crippling in the right circumstances, and that's good. It just feels very off in how it plays out.

[jimwinsor]

And regarding moving the capital back - I guess I you mean disband the Senate building? Then I can manually construct it wherever I want?

Yes, the way the mechanic works here is, it will take you 3 turns to deconstruct your senate in Nicaea. At the end of that period, a new capital will appear in the region with the most Culture output. You can manipulate that by shifting pop to and from the Culture line.

[Pocus]

That's strange, I don't see how you can lose a region if you don't lose the city and will the battle what's more. Either a misunderstanding or a bug.

[thierry2015]

Sorry but

for me with your legions you can maintain order against slaves
ok
but up to a point
(do not forget that unrest of slave = + 50%)
so I do not know the threshold
but it is normal that past this threshold regardless of the number of legions in garrison the revolt is triggered and you lose the region

after a while hate goes beyond fear

Spartacus was afraid of the 10 legions of Crassus

Answer: no he fought

Long live free slaves

question for developers

the garrison can counterbalance how much unrest?

a fixed value or a%?

[Toppins]

That's strange, I don't see how you can lose a region if you don't lose the city and will the battle what's more. Either a misunderstanding or a bug.

I didn't keep my save of the event but I'll try to reproduce it some time if that helps, but yes, I had a large army in the Latium region (garrisoned), won the battle, and lost the region. Good to know it's not intended!

[Toppins]

I can't get my capital to stay in Rome no matter what I do now. Started a new game because disbanding The Senate building wasn't working - capital was moving to various barren border regions. So I started a new game and this time progressed to Empire and thus several turns later I got The Emperor's Palace as my new capital building... and... it spawned in Nicaea, a region with ~200 culture and ~20 culture per turn, instead of my existing capital, Latium, where I had 5500 culture and +130 culture per turn. I destroyed the palace and several turns later it moved to... Liguria, a region with ~800 culture and ~20 culture per turn. One more time I tried... and my capital moved to Etna in Sicily. Also not a logical choice. Rome is by far my most cultured region and has the most culture per turn in my empire.

Is there any way to keep Rome as my capital when I'm playing as Rome?

[devoncop]

I can't get my capital to stay in Rome no matter what I do now. Started a new game because disbanding The Senate building wasn't working - capital was moving to various barren border regions. So I started a new game and this time progressed to Empire and thus several turns later I got The Emperor's Palace as my new capital building... and... it spawned in Nicaea, a region with ~200 culture and ~20 culture per turn, instead of my existing capital, Latium, where I had 5500 culture and +130 culture per turn. I destroyed the palace and several turns later it moved to... Liguria, a region with ~800 culture and ~20 culture per turn. One more time I tried... and my capital moved to Etna in Sicily. Also not a logical choice. Rome is by far my most cultured region and has the most culture per turn in my empire.

Is there any way to keep Rome as my capital when I'm playing as Rome?

As an Empire you get a second Palace (Emperors Palace/Summer Palace) in addition to your original one in your Capital I believe....are you sure it was not this structure and not your Capital that was moving every time you destroyed it ?

I have never seen the Capital move from Rome unless the player initiated it ....

[Toppins]

As an Empire you get a second Palace (Emperors Palace/Summer Palace) in addition to your original one in your Capital I believe....are you sure it was not this structure and not your Capital that was moving every time you destroyed it ?

I have never seen the Capital move from Rome unless the player initiated it ....

Absolutely positive. The faction notifications moved to these new capitals, including the capital move that happened when I became an empire.

On another note I've now reached a point of non-stop civil wars. On my 4th civil war in 30 years, every time I finish one another one triggers instantly. I'm a stable empire in the top ~5 in CDR, which I know can still lead to civil wars as Rome if you have provinces below 75 in loyalty, and I do, but this seems like a slightly... brisk... pace for civil wars when I don't have any regions in open rebellion or anything, just some provinces sitting at low loyalty because they're recently conquered (so the usurpers are spawning in Transalpina, Dalmatia, and Sicily). I'm at 6 provinces in total, so not exactly a huge empire. Most regions in my heartland are at 100 loyalty other than a few that have been absolutely slammed by slave acquisition from my civil wars. I am producing an infinite amount of slaves from fighting my own population, so civil wars are actually a huge boon for pop growth weirdly enough.

[devoncop]

"Infinite amounts of slaves" and constant revolts may well be linked

What is your slave loyalty looking like ?

I can't explain the moving Capital though as I have not had the issue. Maybe all the administrators and patricians are fed up of having rampaging slaves running round Rome and so move their offices somewhere quiter .....I will guess you have a big concentration there

[Toppins]

"Infinite amounts of slaves" and constant revolts may well be linked

What is your slave loyalty looking like ?

I can't explain the moving Capital though as I have not had the issue. Maybe all the administrators and patricians are fed up of having rampaging slaves running round Rome and so move their offices somewhere quiter .....I will guess you have a big concentration there

Oh yeah it was bad in some regions before I called it quits (but not Rome, since the capital moved away kinda early and I didn't have a slave market there). A few regions had 30+ slaves, and that was with constant "sell all my slaves" decisions. Those regions had 0 loyalty and there wasn't much I could do about it, since I can't just sell the slaves myself. But the troubles started before I reached that point and I never actually had a "revolt" per se and the civil wars were mostly just flipping regions outside of Italy. Playing a Carthage campaign now and I made it to empire without my capital moving around and no civil wars so far... so... much nicer.

[Pocus]

Rome can certainly suffer a lot from CW, but what you 'achieved' seems spectacular in this regard

I would be interested in getting your saved game to make some analysis and see if there are loopholes in our game rules.

[Gilmer]

A revolt costs you the region, even if you win. So in a key region, you simply can't risk a revolt, hence the advice to slow down with Rome in early game. A rampage generates too many slaves to cope with

Hack yah! I saw a slave army with 200+ power on the British isle. If I hadn't beaten it, the slaves would have taken over the whole place because they were steamrolling everyone.

[FlashXAron_slith]

... there has to be some bug with that rebels ... they show up in my country even I have no decadency ...
when I load the turn again, nothing happens ...

only have 1-3% rebellion possibility in my provinces and suddenly ALL provinces are uprising ???

Could someone tell me what is the reason ?

And yes I know, I haven't built any structures, which gives you decadency ... only want to build them, when I am on the save side !

The first rebellion, was also somehow unbalanced, even I repelled it, the 100 size army escaped to the north and conquered half of france and germany -->

Here are two save games ... one is before the rebellion and one after it has triggered ...
you could load the one before and if you end turn, the rebellion will not happen ...

It is somehow very unbalanced in my opinion or a bug ...
please have a look ...
it is not fun to play , when it could happen without any reason ...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-mRDl ... Z9jISBf82g

[FlashXAron_slith]

Now I have read that it will ALWAYS HAPPEN, when you play Rome as a Republic and have single regions , which have that support value BELOW 75 ... even if the revolt risk is 3%
...
that is one of the worst game design decision in that game, no it is stupid , as when the rebellion occurred they even have as many or more Legions as you , full equipped ...
that would have been over 15 000 gp amd lot of resources , a JOKE ...

maybe let some Aliens land , that would fit ... or write a message "Hey idiotic player , take that !"
So as you see that makes me angry, when you play 20h and overcome different problems, which makes sense and that such thing ...

Please devs change that it is ridiculous
Thanks

[devoncop]

Now I have read that it will ALWAYS HAPPEN, when you play Rome as a Republic and have single regions , which have that support value BELOW 75 ... even if the revolt risk is 3%
...
that is one of the worst game design decision in that game, no it is stupid , as when the rebellion occurred they even have as many or more Legions as you , full equipped ...
that would have been over 15 000 gp amd lot of resources , a JOKE ...

maybe let some Aliens land , that would fit ... or write a message "Hey idiotic player , take that !"
So as you see that makes me angry, when you play 20h and overcome different problems, which makes sense and that such thing ...

Please devs change that it is ridiculous
Thanks

If you check out the history of the young Roman Republic you will see it is based on history.

If you progress out of that tier of development to the next the revolt risk normalises.

Rome is a very powerful nation in the game already with many unique advantages. It is a formidable MP opponent and a SP one. The revolt problem early on is one of its unique problems that restrains it for a while but all nations have strengths and weaknesses.

[loki100]

Now I have read that it will ALWAYS HAPPEN, when you play Rome as a Republic and have single regions , which have that support value BELOW 75 ... even if the revolt risk is 3%
...
that is one of the worst game design decision in that game, no it is stupid , as when the rebellion occurred they even have as many or more Legions as you , full equipped ...
that would have been over 15 000 gp amd lot of resources , a JOKE ...

maybe let some Aliens land , that would fit ... or write a message "Hey idiotic player , take that !"
So as you see that makes me angry, when you play 20h and overcome different problems, which makes sense and that such thing ...

Please devs change that it is ridiculous
Thanks

Seems a good simulation of Rome in the first century BCE to me. Solution is rot carefully plan your transition to Empire. Try not to do it when you have a lot of low loyalty regions due to recent gains. Sell as many slaves as you can .... you'll get the pop back later and go on a 15-20 turn party. Culture yourself.

You then have a good chance to get to Glorious asap