Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

[ledo]

Thanks for that jim. Just as a note, in the previous turn the Roman army not only defeated the Celticii but also had a victory in Campania over the Antigonids, and on the next turn the Antigonids moved back into Campania to capture it. Carthage's landing was also completely unopposed, as the people of Italy were happy to shed the yoke of Antigonid rule. Carthage has promised (not officially, as it wasn't even discussed since the Carthaginians are true allies; Rome never asked and probably rightly assumed) to return all territory in Italy to Rome, including its own objectives, after the war (in case anyone questioned my motives here). That is, if we survive this struggle which I deem to be unlikely.

Carthage and Rome fight alone for now, as I have not heard from any other nation. We promise that both the Macedonians and the Antigonids will turn the soil of Rome red with their blood before this war is over.

Also you missed the word great when highlighting the "Great Carthage Sea Victory". I think Antigonids did not realise that while you cannot move into a province controlled by your enemy on the turn you declare war, if you share a province or sea zone on that turn; combat ensues. Not that the division of the Antigonid fleet (10/15) changed the outcome, more than it minimised my losses and maximised his.

[ledo]

Nice! Good work there jim. Way more efficient than devon's rambling and hysterical missives.

I think you'll find I'm the one sending the hysterical missives.

[ledo]

Still, roleplaying aside, I don't really see anything wrong with the argument. For whatever reason, the Antigonids have proven themselves to be aggressive expansionists. Every player here has to consider what happens ten or so turns from now when Rome and Carthage are defeated. Each player has to be worried that they are not the legacy leaders. So if the Antigonids and Macedonians win, they will either invade you at some point or you'll find yourself in a race with them for legacy you cannot win. 10-15 turns from now, after the Antigonids have recovered their losses, Rome is defeated, Carthage is on the defensive and severely weakened possibly conquered as well. If the Antigonids turn to another nation, what alliance will they be able to form then. Right now, Rome and Carthage are fighting the Antigonids, winning some victories, causing damage, tying up troops. 10-15 turns from now who will be able to join a grand alliance to save you? What alliance will be strong enough to stop the combined power of Macedonia and the Antigonids? Seriously, look around the map and who will be left that's in a position to do so. It may not be a good option, but currently there are no good options, fight now, with us while their attention is divided, or fight later alone or at least with an alliance half the size facing twice the forces and be eliminated later. I understand the fear of being eliminated, and the status quo passivity that most players tend to fall into because of the stress of rolling the dice, but the game, for most of you, will be won or lost in the next 10-15-20 turns. Maybe the Seleucids will still stand a chance, but the rest of you, this is your one chance to try to put yourself in a winning position, and frankly be involved in something that's thoroughly exciting, an against the odds campaign, with every victory exhilirating, every turn opening nail-biting. To not join us now might not be a guaranteed victory for either Macedonia or Antigonids, but it definitely shifts the odds from 50/50 to something in the order of near certainty. And to let us fight alone is to guarantee, regardless of whether you are attacked or not, that you are at the mercy of the wandering eyes of the Antigonids and the Macedonians for the rest of the game, hoping they don't attack you next. There was no warning when the Antigonids landed in Bruttium, there will be none next time either, none will be safe if this conflict is lost.

And if you think that this is merely self-interest, remember I was not declare war upon. I was not forced into this conflict by some alliance. I used the exact same reasoning above to come to the conclusion that I must be involved, that without any alliances or real hope (let alone guarantee) of victory that I should risk all my armies and my fleet, which very well could have kept me safe at home, and enter the war. I'm practicing what I preach here, my actions as are the Antigonids are proof my words aren't mere puff or desperation. And the Antigonids and Macedonians actions here are proof that the vision of the future I present here is more than just mere puff and desperation, but the most likely chain of events if we are defeated.

[Geffalrus]

If you're wondering why the Carthaginians are so happy to give territory back to Rome, it's because they are plenty capable of generating lots of culture and legacy in their core territories. Once the Carthage boom gets going, they'll be more than competitive, regardless of what conquest may be happening around them.

As far as "aggressive expansion" is concerned, that's extremely exaggerated. Prior to Operation Troll Devoncop, my only military moves were against Judea who attacked me (the AI will always do this, sadly), and then Rhodes, Athens, and the independents in Crete. Rhodes and Athens are nearby objectives that I needed to stay afloat culturally since I'm not getting progress tokens from my objectives in Lysimakid and Seleucid territory. These were all AI targets, so I fail to see how they're any different than Carthage's own expansion in Sicily and Sardinia, or Rome's expansion against the Senones, Etruscans, Samnites, and Tarantines.

Otherwise, I have been a perfect neighbor. I've sent financial aid to Pontus to help them in their Chersonesus campaign, demilitarized the Egyptian and Seleucid borders, and stoically watched the Bithynians grab a region near Lydia during a Macedonian border dispute. My aims regarding Rome have been clearly stated. This is a personal matter, and Carthage was quite honestly, not invited. Their rudeness knows no bounds.

Carthage tells tales of altruism to disguise their true aims. They are jealous of our culture and apparently rather boastful, as they seem to like to tell the same story of a naval victory over and over and over again. We all heard you the first time, buddy.

[ledo]

If you're wondering why the Carthaginians are so happy to give territory back to Rome, it's because they are plenty capable of generating lots of culture and legacy in their core territories. Once the Carthage boom gets going, they'll be more than competitive, regardless of what conquest may be happening around them.

As far as "aggressive expansion" is concerned, that's extremely exaggerated. Prior to Operation Troll Devoncop, my only military moves were against Judea who attacked me (the AI will always do this, sadly), and then Rhodes, Athens, and the independents in Crete. Rhodes and Athens are nearby objectives that I needed to stay afloat culturally since I'm not getting progress tokens from my objectives in Lysimakid and Seleucid territory. These were all AI targets, so I fail to see how they're any different than Carthage's own expansion in Sicily and Sardinia, or Rome's expansion against the Senones, Etruscans, Samnites, and Tarantines.

Otherwise, I have been a perfect neighbor. I've sent financial aid to Pontus to help them in their Chersonesus campaign, demilitarized the Egyptian and Seleucid borders, and stoically watched the Bithynians grab a region near Lydia during a Macedonian border dispute. My aims regarding Rome have been clearly stated. This is a personal matter, and Carthage was quite honestly, not invited. Their rudeness knows no bounds.

Carthage tells tales of altruism to disguise their true aims. They are jealous of our culture and apparently rather boastful, as they seem to like to tell the same story of a naval victory over and over and over again. We all heard you the first time, buddy.

All I wanted was just one small little Italy and to knock out a major rival and tip the balance of powers without anyone getting involved, is that too much to ask? The difference is that it's Italy, and not the AI as you said yourself. It is expansion, it is aggressive, it is aggressive expansion. I have come to the aid of a nation you have come to destroy one. If you want to paint me as a villain in this story, I dare say you will find yourself hard-pressed.

If you reread my posts you will find I never talked about altruism. I talked about rising to the occasion in the face of an aggressor specifically because it is the only hope that many nations will have of winning. I have drawn a line in the sand, and I am sure others will make their own determinations on that front.

As for your other point about Carthage's own position, I agree, but that only supports my premise. I could indeed sit back in Carthage and claim my culture and legacy ( I have left the capture of Corsica to join this war, and had to peace early with the Gaetuli also). Focusing on fleets I could make it difficult for anyone to attack me. I have chosen not to. I do not need to further justify myself, my allies who have dealt with me can form their opinions of what type of ally and neighbour I have been, and the effort i put into their interests as well as my own.

I surely want to win, like everyone else, of that there is no doubt, but that does not by definition make me inherently more malevolent, dishonorable or suspect than anyone else.

As far as the naval victory, I assume the three or so times I have mentioned it are likely to have annoyed you more than anyone else. I for one thought it was a wonderful morale boost for what is a very uncertain and uneven war, where every turn we are on the brink of defeat. We opened that turn with one big army on Italian soil, another approaching, a large but disjointed antigonid fleet off the coast, a celtic horde besieging the north and having lost two provinces in southern Italy. By the end of the turn we had bruised and battered an antigonid army, eliminated the Celticii and destroyed the Antigonid fleet. It was a good day, with a large dose of luck pushing us through. I am not ashamed to say it gave Rome and myself great relief and that in my excitement I shared it and responded to posts discussing it. May god forgive me for my sins.

[devoncop]

Interesting developments all round it seems.

Rome is truly grateful for the unsolicited help from Carthage and whatever the result it is a noble effort.

I am not sure "Operation Troll Devoncop" in describing Antigonid/Macedonian expansionism is the explanation for the map of the known world (let alone the one posted by Jim )..........

Rome will continue to resist .Her army is intact. This turn it will make a choice as to whether to hurl itself in a last glorious struggle against the Macedonian or Antigonid aggressors. It is not going to be pretty. It will however be in the finest traditions of Rome.

[pnoff]

Nobody doubts that King of Macedon can come up with infinite exquisite taunts and undeniable arguments on why he and his allies should rule Italy and beyond.

Unfortunately, our King is too busy between his private estate and Queen of Macedon, so he only has time to order the troops around.

Romans and Carthagenians are shaking in fear waiting for scrolls bearing his royal signature.


-Macedonian Foreign Ministry
on behalf of Pnoff of Macedon

[ledo]

Nobody doubts that King of Macedon can come up with infinite exquisite taunts and undeniable arguments on why he and his allies should rule Italy and beyond.

Unfortunately, our King is too busy between his private estate and Queen of Macedon, so he only has time to order the troops around.

Romans and Carthagenians are shaking in fear waiting for scrolls bearing his royal signature.


-Macedonian Foreign Ministry
on behalf of Pnoff of Macedon

If only the queen was more demanding the king might not have time for that either. It's a shame that she is such an understanding woman.

[13obo]

Stooping down to modern day politics, I see!

[pnoff]

Year 275 (turn 35), Middle Mediterranean report:

-) Rome's armies are wiped out by combined forces of Macedon and Antigonids. The city of Rome itself is expected to fall soon.

-) Carthage army left Italy and is swimming near Sicily. Are they gonna bring the fight to Greece itself??? That would be quite a desperate move.

-) Lysemachos attacked Antigonids, but looks like they backed the wrong horse. Their Non-aggression pact with Macedon is brought under question by this erratic move.


If somebody, please, will send me the map without my forces all over it I will put some arrows on it.

[ledo]

Indeed the situation for Rome is dire. Macedonia has landed 2 armies to go with Antigonids two armies. With the Roman army defeated the battle for Italy has been lost. The Carthaginians are retreating for now, a land battle not being favoured against superior forces.

[Geffalrus]

The Antigonids are landing a second army of graffiti artists to properly deface the Roman wonders with pro-Hellenistic slogans and anti-Roman jibes.

[devoncop]

For us the war is over.


As the Senate steals away in the night to a life of well deserved obscurity as the remaining Roman garrisons are cut down it seems an Antigonid landslide is secured.....

Macedon has proved that she is happy to lose in the service of her master

[jimwinsor]

If somebody, please, will send me the map without my forces all over it I will put some arrows on it.

Italian War update:

Macedon takes Clanis, puts Tiberius under siege, and wins a big battle vs Rome in Etruria, putting it under siege.

Antigonus wins a big battle vs Rome in Latium, and puts Rome under siege.

Carthage takes much of south Italy, but is reportedly withdrawing its forces there.

Rapinatores take control of Aternus.

Off map, fighting breaks out in Asia Minor, between client states of Lysimachus, the newest entry into the war, and Antigonus.

To give an idea of the sheer intensity of the war, both Carthage and Antigonus have utilized the Emergency Reinforcements option this turn in their respective capitals.

Capture2.JPG (201.61 KiB) Viewed 1873 times

[jimwinsor]

And in case anyone is wondering what I've been up to, today I learned conquering the eastern map edge does not give one the degree of security one would normally expect:

Capture.JPG (272.76 KiB) Viewed 1868 times

[pnoff]

And in case anyone is wondering what I've been up to, today I learned conquering the eastern map edge does not give one the degree of security one would normally expect:

Holly molly, I was wondering how this mechanic works. Keep us informed please

Thanks for the map, here is my version of events, don't think there is much to add.

I hope Pocus will add function to hide interface/armies in the future.

275BC_v2.jpg (360.45 KiB) Viewed 1770 times

[Geffalrus]

And in case anyone is wondering what I've been up to, today I learned conquering the eastern map edge does not give one the degree of security one would normally expect:


Capture.JPG

Ho ho HOLY SHIT THAT'S A LOT OF ELEPHANTS!

As for my report on things, I still haven't figured out the screenshot mechanic. Thanks pnoff and jim for your maps of the Italian Front - damn good stuff. As far as the Anatolian theatre is concerned, not much to say - I'm trading regions with the clients. The moves and composition of Antigonid armies are, of course, classified. Suffice it to say, however, the Antigonid Military Industrial Complex is getting a bit of a workout.

The best artists and satirists in the entire Antigonid kingdom are being shipped to Italy in preparation for the great meme-ing of Rome.

[RufusTFirefly]

Ho ho HOLY SHIT THAT'S A LOT OF ELEPHANTS!

An elephant needs 250 kg of food each day. Imagine the supply train this army needs!

Btw, you want that much elephants too? Buy from Egypt. Special offer for all (sorry Carthage, no longer an exclusive offer just for you): Buy elephants and get papyrus with 50 % reduced price. Order soon, before we are sold out. There are other orders as well.
(Guess form where. Just a hint: we ship them eastwards.)

[RufusTFirefly]

Afk til Thursday.
AI will take over (so dont blame me for any mess it does) .

[ledo]

Rome is done, and it seems like I made a tactical error, forgetting to switch the general on my fleet. It was going to be a tight battle but I liked my chances, now there's a very good chance it gets wiped next turn (depending on how equal movement at equal speed into each other works). I do think that likely spells the end for any hope of victory. It has been fun, and I enjoyed finally having an epic war, even if a few tactical errors on my part, and a lot of potential allies being out of position at the start, may have allowed it to end a little bit quicker than we had hoped. If the next turn goes as I expected, I would like to commend my opponents on a war well fought, and wish the remaining players luck. I may fight on for a while but this game has been a lot of work behind the scenes for me and I probably will not stick it out for the long haul if things turn out next turn as bad as I think, without any hope of foreign assistance. I wish the remaining players well.