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Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:13 pm
by Geffalrus
Hey folks. Just checking in to see who's still in the game and who's checked out. I know devon's out (but probably lurking). Desertedfox put up a good fight, but is now in dire straights.

I'm engaged in a regular military back and forth with ledo (Carthage), but I just noticed that this turn his multiplayer icon disappeared. I have no problem if major players want to move on - I just want to know for sure, as that has important diplomatic implications. :)

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:05 pm
by pnoff
Geffalrus wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:13 pm
Hey folks. Just checking in to see who's still in the game and who's checked out. I know devon's out (but probably lurking). Desertedfox put up a good fight, but is now in dire straights.

I'm engaged in a regular military back and forth with ledo (Carthage), but I just noticed that this turn his multiplayer icon disappeared. I have no problem if major players want to move on - I just want to know for sure, as that has important diplomatic implications. :)
I can continue, but if there is only me, Antigonids and Seleucid it will feel a bit desolate (apparently some wanker murdered bunch of people :roll: ). Unless you guys want to do a last great war (I wonder what that would be :lol:) I would be ready to call it quits.

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:11 am
by jimwinsor
I'm fine with calling it quits!

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:39 am
by MARVIN_THE_ARVN
I'm away for another week or so but I doubt bacteria has much to bring to the party.

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:50 am
by pnoff
The thing is that I don't enjoy combat mechanics by itself, so after the game gets railroaded politically I'm not that excited anymore.

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:00 am
by 13obo
The attack/defence mechanic is killing combat...

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:03 am
by pnoff
13obo wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:00 am
The attack/defence mechanic is killing combat...
We are 6 light cavalry detachments and they are 12 legion with light infantry support.

What do we do?

CHAAAARGE! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:33 am
by Morbio
I'd fight, if only I had an army... and some land :twisted:

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:48 pm
by Geffalrus
13obo wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:00 am
The attack/defence mechanic is killing combat...
Agreed. It forces weird strategic decisions and exacerbates the finicky-ness of how attack/defense gets determined in individual cases. Being at such a disadvantage defensively with most armies where attack values > defense values makes it super annoying to prosecute wars. I've stated it elsewhere, but that dynamic makes decent sense for generals who are planning the campaigns (some being better at invading or defending), and almost no sense for individual units. Pikes and elephants, for example, should be just as potent unit-wise defending as attacking.

But honestly, the thing I hate more is the frontage calculations. Like in the below battle, for example:
20190918150437_1.jpg
20190918150437_1.jpg (412.35 KiB) Viewed 567 times
Why in the ever loving fork are my elephants in the support rank!?!?!? Their ranged attack is worse than normal archers - AND - their support bonus is much, much worse. The algorithm is just completely off and massively frustrating. Hopefully the update will fix all that?

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:20 pm
by Morbio
Geffalrus wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:48 pm
13obo wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:00 am
The attack/defence mechanic is killing combat...
Agreed. It forces weird strategic decisions and exacerbates the finicky-ness of how attack/defense gets determined in individual cases. Being at such a disadvantage defensively with most armies where attack values > defense values makes it super annoying to prosecute wars. I've stated it elsewhere, but that dynamic makes decent sense for generals who are planning the campaigns (some being better at invading or defending), and almost no sense for individual units. Pikes and elephants, for example, should be just as potent unit-wise defending as attacking.

But honestly, the thing I hate more is the frontage calculations. Like in the below battle, for example:
20190918150437_1.jpg

Why in the ever loving fork are my elephants in the support rank!?!?!? Their ranged attack is worse than normal archers - AND - their support bonus is much, much worse. The algorithm is just completely off and massively frustrating. Hopefully the update will fix all that?
Looking at the picture I'd also wonder why you have some skirmishers standing in the rear when the majority of your skirmish line is empty!

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:04 pm
by 13obo
His skirmish/support line is full but not optimised. I think you are misreading the screenshot.

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:57 pm
by Geffalrus
13obo wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:04 pm
His skirmish/support line is full but not optimised. I think you are misreading the screenshot.
Yes. One spot is taken by a random normal skirmisher, 2 slots are taken by Elephants, and the other 3 are taken properly by Lydian Archers. That leaves 4 Cilician Archer units not involved in support where their ranged/support abilities would be supremely helpful. As well as 3 light cavalry units that would be better at range and support than both the elephants and the foot skirmisher. It's a complete mess.

Yes, it is making the city assault a - bit - more difficult, but it's doing so in a way that makes a mess of the underlying mechanics. And it's not predictable either. Sometimes my light cav are in support in the center of the support line. Sometimes it's my elephants. Sometimes my flanks are held by mercenary infantry when Companions would be better in literally every possible situation.

The only possible solution to this currently is to precisely tailor your army for the frontage type and width you'll be facing. But the example above was a siege battle in Mesopotamia that is mostly Plains with a frontage of 12. Unless I'm supposed to manually split the army and send half of it away. At which point, I'm still at the mercy of the battle dice to some extent. And having a precise formation leaves one very vulnerable to drawn out battles. In a way that doesn't make much sense. Plus, splitting units in that fashion wastes their Experience when they go from general to general during what is essentially an administrative task of reorganizing units. It's just messy.

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:58 pm
by Geffalrus
Morbio wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:20 pm
Looking at the picture I'd also wonder why you have some skirmishers standing in the rear when the majority of your skirmish line is empty!
Archer units always start in the support rank. Skirmishers start in front and then pass through the melee line to take up space in the support rank. It's just for show really. There's no mechanical reason for the difference.

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:40 pm
by Geffalrus
Most of the action in the Great Alliance War is now confined to Southern Italy and Illyria. I only grabbed screens of the most recent developments in Sicily, but I'll sum up the rest with the following:

- In the aftermath of Rome's Fall, the Carthaginians and Lysimakids attempted a daring deep penetration strategy to strike at the heart of Macedon while our armies were distracted in Italy and Anatolia.

- The Macedonian's reacted swiftly, and were able to counter both thrusts. The Lysimakid army lacked the infrastructure to quickly rebuild their army, and were rapidly absorbed by ravenous Macedon.

- In Anatolia, the Lysimakid allies were quickly dealt with by the Antigonids, at which point Byzantion AI jumped in and attacked the rich regions of Asia Minor. Lydia was NARROWLY saved and the Byzantine tide rolled back.

- With their cores secure, the Macedonians expanded into Illyria and Moesia, pursuing the remnants of the Lysimakid dynasty, while the Antigonids went on the offense in Southern Italy at the same time that the Carthaginians attempted a second invasion of Campania and Tarentum.

- A brief war with the Samnites allowed the Antigonids to create a province in Southern Italy, allowing for easier food transfer and ending the supply problems that had plagued the Expeditionary Force since the beginning. Well fed and free to march, the AEF dealt with both Carthaginian invasions in quick succession, helped in no small part by the many scout ships that gave their lives keeping an eye on the Carthaginian Fleet.

So now, with Italy under control, and two Carthaginian armies destroyed, the Antigonid Invasion of Sicily could begin:
Sicily.jpg
Sicily.jpg (261.52 KiB) Viewed 525 times
The sudden arrival of the Anatolian Army took Syracuse by surprise and put the Carthaginian defense of the island in doubt......
Invasion.jpg
Invasion.jpg (249.5 KiB) Viewed 525 times

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:42 pm
by Geffalrus
Military numbers from the Antigonid Information Service:
Military.jpg
Military.jpg (253.05 KiB) Viewed 524 times
And the Legacy tracker:
Legacy.jpg
Legacy.jpg (226.58 KiB) Viewed 524 times

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:42 pm
by pnoff
Geffalrus wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:40 pm
Nice report, Geffalrus, thanks!

Don't have much to add.

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:56 pm
by pnoff
I think the game is officially abandoned now. Does anybody has a snapshot of the final state? Preferable before AI Seleucids ate half of AI Antigonids?

edit. Actually, It's not that different from last screenshots posted by Geffalrus, I believe.

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:05 pm
by MARVIN_THE_ARVN
Yeah, I left as I thought we were dropping it

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:33 pm
by RufusTFirefly
Looks like I am the only one still playing. Thanks to all who left without leaving a note. Thought you were experiences players and knew about reliabilty and communication in a MP.

Re: Field of Diplomacy - Calling Players for an MP game

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:51 pm
by MARVIN_THE_ARVN
Apologies if I didn't say bye, I normally do, I must have missed it in the chaos of the AI running amok for 2 weeks in my games.