Military Unit Creation Location

Field of Glory: Empires is a grand strategy game in which you will have to move in an intricate and living tapestry of nations and tribes, each one with their distinctive culture.
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rob_tomcat
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Military Unit Creation Location

Post by rob_tomcat » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:19 am

Is there a way to have military units generated inside a town's walls rather than just inside a province? If not, could this be considered as an option please?

For example, I am expecting an enemy attack on a province where I have only a small number of military units, so I put them inside the town for additional protection from the town walls and request some more recruits to be created. At the end of the turn the enemy attacks the 2 or 3 newly created military units which have been created in the open province, kills them all immediately and then attacks the town which again has only a very few military units present. Now if those new military units were created inside the town walls there would be a better chance of surviving against the attacker since the overall force is larger.

So why not keep the original units simply in the province rather than putting them inside the town walls so they will be joined by the new recruits and present a larger single force against the attacker rather than 2 weaker forces? Well, inside the town walls there is a smaller frontage against the enemy rather than being out in the open province and easily flanked.

Rob

rob_tomcat
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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by rob_tomcat » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:14 am

Clearly nobody else considers this important but I would be interested in hearing a developer's comment.

Rob

loki100
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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by loki100 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:44 am

The trick is to have one unit in the region already in the fortifications. Then any new builds will be combined with that unit allowing you to create a garrison. So I'm not sure why this isn't what you are seeing when I do it all the time.

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by rob_tomcat » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:58 am

Thanks for the response. I had a garrison of a few units inside the walls and the new units spawned in the province and were immediately slaughtered by the army which invaded as expected. The garrison remained within the walls and not attacked.

I will try this again to check the situation as you said your experience was different with the units combining with the garrisoned unit.

Rob

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by loki100 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:19 am

should add, this works all the time if there is one stack (already behind the walls), less sure if you have more than one but I think they tend to go to the fortified stack.

I've noticed this a lot in my current game as I have a lot of police force style stacks and they tend to get new units I want for my active army attached to them, so need to go and split the new units out

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by rob_tomcat » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:30 pm

Loki I appreciate your response.

Here is the situation I have just tried - a slightly different situation to the one originally reported but generating a similar response.

I have a Roman army garrisoned within Latium city walls, 13 units with CP 46 in one stack. Just before I hit end of the turn, I ask to generate an additional 4 military units with CP 44 in Latium. At the end of the turn the Samnium army arrives fresh in Latium at the same time as the 4 additional Latium units are generated and starts fighting just these 4 units, NOT the 13 units inside the Latium walls. Quickly slaughtering 3 of those 4 new units and not touching the 13 units of the army inside the Latium walls, the Samnium army moves into Campania and slaughters the 1 unit from Latium that survived and escaped the Latium battle.

So if those 4 new units in Latium were generated inside the walls as you suggest they would be, how come the invading Samnites only attack those 4 new units in a battle and not the remaining 13 units inside Latium? My belief is that those 4 new units were generated in the province, not inside the city walls as I would have hoped for under the circumstances.

So I am asking for an option to generate new units either inside the city walls or in the province depending upon circumstances.

Rob

loki100
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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by loki100 » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:28 pm

rob_tomcat wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:30 pm
Loki I appreciate your response.

Here is the situation I have just tried - a slightly different situation to the one originally reported but generating a similar response.

I have a Roman army garrisoned within Latium city walls, 13 units with CP 46 in one stack. Just before I hit end of the turn, I ask to generate an additional 4 military units with CP 44 in Latium. At the end of the turn the Samnium army arrives fresh in Latium at the same time as the 4 additional Latium units are generated and starts fighting just these 4 units, NOT the 13 units inside the Latium walls. Quickly slaughtering 3 of those 4 new units and not touching the 13 units of the army inside the Latium walls, the Samnium army moves into Campania and slaughters the 1 unit from Latium that survived and escaped the Latium battle.

So if those 4 new units in Latium were generated inside the walls as you suggest they would be, how come the invading Samnites only attack those 4 new units in a battle and not the remaining 13 units inside Latium? My belief is that those 4 new units were generated in the province, not inside the city walls as I would have hoped for under the circumstances.

So I am asking for an option to generate new units either inside the city walls or in the province depending upon circumstances.

Rob
ignoring the last bit, I genuinely see the exact opposite, if I have a stack inside the walls that is where the new units end up - and as above, this is often a pain in my game as I then have to fish out the mobile units (a very first world problem I realise).

my suspicion is the issue is in some way connected to the turn resolution routines. I know that some things happen pre-movement such as diplomacy and I guess unit generation. Now I would expect new units to be created attached to a stack (where this is appropriate) so in/out walls depending. If they are created in a new stack this is indeed outside the walls.

I've not seen an instance of what you are describing so heres my guess. In some way the new stack is created outside the wall (not sure why) and gets attached to an existing stack later in the move phase - possibly once all MP are expended (there is another tidy up phase then). So without an attack, by the time you open the turn your new units are integrated into the existing stacks, but in your case they are dead ... :wink:

If you have the save, I'd suggest put a post in the technical support - even if this is all WAD its clearly generating a unintended result?

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by rob_tomcat » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:10 am

Thanks loki. I have made a post in the Tech Support forum

Rob

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by Lysimachos » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:54 pm

Maybe it really works as loki says.
In the routine firstly new units are generated in the province, then attacks happens (firstly regarding units outside the walls, expecially if the attacker hasn't set the storming option), if no attack is ongoing the new units reach the existing stack inside the walls.
Logistically speaking, it does sense.
Units are created in the whole region/province and not just in the walled city.
So, before stacking with the existing ones, they need time to reach the new location and, in the meanwhile, are subject to enemy attacks.

On the same issue another question, though.
Why, when owning a province, units are generated only in the capital and there is no way to have them recruited in a single, specific region?
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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by Morbio » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:42 pm

Lysimachos wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:54 pm
Maybe it really works as loki says.
In the routine firstly new units are generated in the province, then attacks happens (firstly regarding units outside the walls, expecially if the attacker hasn't set the storming option), if no attack is ongoing the new units reach the existing stack inside the walls.
Logistically speaking, it does sense.
Units are created in the whole region/province and not just in the walled city.
So, before stacking with the existing ones, they need time to reach the new location and, in the meanwhile, are subject to enemy attacks.

On the same issue another question, though.
Why, when owning a province, units are generated only in the capital and there is no way to have them recruited in a single, specific region?
I second that question. It also seems bizarre to me that the building for recruiting units, e.g. Mercenary Recruitment Centre or Barracks can be outside the capital, yet the units are built in a different place. The logical thing would be for the units to be built in the region where the building is located.

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by loki100 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:48 pm

thats how it works at the moment - from a response I left on the Steam forums:
Some clarity on this. Assuming your goal is to ensure that recruited units maximise their XP on recruitment (& you have formed the province).

Then - training ground/barracks/archery/castrum equitatum/castrum cataphractae/master fletcher - need to go to your regional capital. That is where fresh units appear.

If you just want to trigger unit types then the barracks/castrun cataphractae can be anywhere in the province. But since they have a dual role you may as well maximise the benefits. Stables are a good eg of a build where you like option so can help get the higher defensive buildings unlocked in a region.

The 'master' buildings work anywhere as their military role is to upgrade existing units. The fletcher is an exception as it has a recruitment role too but the master armorer follows off the armorer building (build anywhere - again may help you get 3*tier 1 military buildings) and the stable master follows off the stables.


So to summarise - if it gives XP on recruitment = provincial capital; if it upgrades existing units = anywhere, if it gives fortifications or military equipment = anywhere

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by Demetrios_of_Messene » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:40 pm

I would also prefer that fresh recruits are by default placed inside the (presumably fortified) city that creates the units.

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by vakarr » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:45 am

loki100 wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:48 pm
thats how it works at the moment - from a response I left on the Steam forums:
Some clarity on this. Assuming your goal is to ensure that recruited units maximise their XP on recruitment (& you have formed the province).


So to summarise - if it gives XP on recruitment = provincial capital; if it upgrades existing units = anywhere, if it gives fortifications or military equipment = anywhere
When I asked about this on this forum, I was told the opposite, has this changed? I was told the XP increase applied anywhere in the province while the "Master" upgrade only applied in the region it was situated. So you can build the Training Ground, Archer etc anywhere in the province but if you want the "Master" upgrade to apply when it is built then the "Master" building has to be in the provincial capital.

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by loki100 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:48 am

vakarr wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:45 am
loki100 wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:48 pm
thats how it works at the moment - from a response I left on the Steam forums:
Some clarity on this. Assuming your goal is to ensure that recruited units maximise their XP on recruitment (& you have formed the province).


So to summarise - if it gives XP on recruitment = provincial capital; if it upgrades existing units = anywhere, if it gives fortifications or military equipment = anywhere
When I asked about this on this forum, I was told the opposite, has this changed? I was told the XP increase applied anywhere in the province while the "Master" upgrade only applied in the region it was situated. So you can build the Training Ground, Archer etc anywhere in the province but if you want the "Master" upgrade to apply when it is built then the "Master" building has to be in the provincial capital.
I don't know who told you that but for the moment its wrong. It may well change to the system you describe at some stage (most likely will). The thread you linked to on steam was asking about the production of military equipment.

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by vakarr » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:38 am

I'm not talking about equipment, I asked quite early during the beta about this (I am unable to access the beta forum now to find it) but I was told then that the ordinary upgrades apply across the province and that this was one of the benefits of converting regions to a province.

loki100
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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by loki100 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:52 pm

must have been some time back - its been this way for as long as I can remember. But it is likely to change again. The problem with the old system was it was incredibly hard to keep track of the needed buildings, this way you only need to scan one region.

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by vakarr » Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:26 pm

But it's silly as you don't know which region will become the province capital until the province is formed, and you end up with military buildings all over the place as you needed them while expanding and have captured others.

rob_tomcat
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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by rob_tomcat » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:27 am

Still waiting for a response to my save game from Support in the tech support forum. This thread has turned into an interesting discussion re military units and buildings.

Rob

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Re: Military Unit Creation Location

Post by Pocus » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:46 am

I believe I answered directly in the tech forum by now.
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