Suggestion: Multiplayer Conditional Acceptance

Field of Glory: Empires is a grand strategy game in which you will have to move in an intricate and living tapestry of nations and tribes, each one with their distinctive culture.
Set in Europe and in the Mediterranean Area during the Classical Age, experience what truly means to manage an Empire.

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Morbio
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Suggestion: Multiplayer Conditional Acceptance

Post by Morbio » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:36 am

Would it be possible to specify in a new multiplayer game whether players can have active mods? I suggest a simple tick/check box to state whether a player with mods can join.

I have a number of games which are generating script errors and is causing people to abandon the game. It would certainly be helpful if you can exclude players who have mods active.

13obo
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Re: Suggestion: Multiplayer Conditional Acceptance

Post by 13obo » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:45 am

The suggestion is very reasonable- I am also in a few such games and it's a pitty because they were going well.

For starters though, can we get an explanation as to what difference in game assets may lead to? Can it lead to armies travelling more or fighting with better stats or regions producing more? Surely there must be someone (perhaps the host) whose game assets determine the resolution of the turn. Otherwise there'd be desyncing between the players very quickly as for example an army can win one fight for one player but lose the same fight for another one, a region will change ownership for one but not another, etc...


So my question is, what actually happens when such a multiplayer exists?

loki100
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Re: Suggestion: Multiplayer Conditional Acceptance

Post by loki100 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:06 pm

here's my interpretation.

everyone loads up their own save - this keys off the data on their own build. So if you have changed unit/building/faction parameters this data is embedded in the save.

once everyone has loaded the slitherine server (not the host as in the old AGEOD PBEM) runs the turn, using all these files, and resolves interactions such as battles/sieges/diplomacy using the basic game engine.

So if I've modded my game so my phalanxes have an attack of 25 then that goes into the turn resolution. But the safety net is the turn resolution looks for differences across some variables and triggers the message.

So if everyone in a given game uses the same set of modifications its all ok.

Its probably less than ideal (understatement) and it would be good to get the sort of mod system that FoG2 has in place where you can shift from the base game to an accepted mod as you (& your opponent) wishes.

My instinct at the moment is if you are modding or testing, you need more than one game build on your PC - thats my current solution ... and have to remember not to use that build to generate a MP turn.

I may be talking mince here, I'm not that involved in MP apart from Devoncop's game and the few we ran for testing during the beta.

Morbio
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Re: Suggestion: Multiplayer Conditional Acceptance

Post by Morbio » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:13 pm

loki100 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:06 pm
here's my interpretation.

everyone loads up their own save - this keys off the data on their own build. So if you have changed unit/building/faction parameters this data is embedded in the save.

once everyone has loaded the slitherine server (not the host as in the old AGEOD PBEM) runs the turn, using all these files, and resolves interactions such as battles/sieges/diplomacy using the basic game engine.

So if I've modded my game so my phalanxes have an attack of 25 then that goes into the turn resolution. But the safety net is the turn resolution looks for differences across some variables and triggers the message.
So if your interpretation is correct then someone could mod the game to give them an advantage, which means that at some point someone will do it, which means that a great MP game could be ruined by a malicious player. IMO this means that all MP games really need to exclude mods to ensure the purity of the game. This makes my request to be able to exclude modded players fairly essential.

13obo
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Re: Suggestion: Multiplayer Conditional Acceptance

Post by 13obo » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:18 pm

The alternative to what loki suggests is that the turn resolution is only determined by one player's game assets. So if that player has no mods, then others having mods would have no impact on the overall game, apart from the player with the mods who will see confusing results and turn resolutions as to what he/she was expecting.

I'd wait for Pocus to reply to the question as that would give us the best lead for what to do in multiplayer games with mods.

loki100
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Re: Suggestion: Multiplayer Conditional Acceptance

Post by loki100 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:47 pm

just sticking to my view (Pocus being on holiday).

what I'm sure of: the Slitherine server is the only way to play MP for Empires, so the old AGEOD hosting is not an option (i'd suspect this is hardwired deep into the ARCHON game engine).

I think this hasn't been an issue in FoG2 (but haven't played that MP so could be wrong) as it has quite a well organised mod system, both the well supported and widely shared ones and less formal ones. This is effectively inside the game, you download a mod (within the game launcher) and opt to play with it. I presume their MP community then sort themselves out as to which they are using.

I don't know - and its a good question - how modding will go forward in Empires. I can see real merit to the FoG2 approach but not sure how transferable that is.

at the moment, I personally would not play MP against someone with modded files, so yes, at the least make it clear when signing up. We had this problem (unintentionally) in the beta as some people uploaded a turn under one build and then others under a later build - my recollection was the warning message didn't indicate who was out of synch, just that this had occured.

so you sort of end up with the situation that you know that someone has modded their files (very possibly with no malign intent), you don't know who or how.

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