Figures Mongol Sword/Bow Armoured CV

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lonehorseman
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Figures Mongol Sword/Bow Armoured CV

Post by lonehorseman » Tue May 04, 2010 4:53 am

Hi there.

Regarding Sword/Bow Cav what is the view regarding the figures having lances? I am struggling to find a manufacturer that sells Mongols without the heavy cav soley being equipped with lances. Ideally I would like a mix of swords and bows but have no idea where I could find these>

Thanks

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Re: Figures Mongol Sword/Bow Armoured CV

Post by expendablecinc » Tue May 04, 2010 5:21 am

lonehorseman wrote:Hi there.

Regarding Sword/Bow Cav what is the view regarding the figures having lances? I am struggling to find a manufacturer that sells Mongols without the heavy cav soley being equipped with lances. Ideally I would like a mix of swords and bows but have no idea where I could find these>

Thanks
allain touller makes an extensive range of mongols many of which do not have lance and you pick a mix of the specific figs you want.

mirtliton have good quality mongol sculpts in thier russian range.

Anthony

lonehorseman
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Post by lonehorseman » Tue May 04, 2010 10:52 am

Mirliton Russians all have lances :( ... although technically incorrect would something like this work?
These are Khurasan Miniatures Hunnic KM-1500, KM-1501, KM-1502

http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/km1500.jpg for LH and 2 TC*

http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/km1501.jpg for the Cv and 2 FC*

http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/km1502.jpg for the IC*

* I was thinking of single basing generals on 25x 25mm bases

For the metal armour on the Cv I was thinking to either paint it as a very dark reddish brown or a brownish black as leather lamilar instead of the metal platelets- would this be right historically? I am not too sure of my uniforms. I am thinking lots of browns, earthy-greens and grey-blues with the occasional brighter colour such as red thrown in.

Also horse wise what would be a good colour to go for? Yellowy-Brown and other Browns?

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Re: Figures Mongol Sword/Bow Armoured CV

Post by tadamson » Tue May 04, 2010 10:52 am

lonehorseman wrote:Hi there.

Regarding Sword/Bow Cav what is the view regarding the figures having lances? I am struggling to find a manufacturer that sells Mongols without the heavy cav soley being equipped with lances. Ideally I would like a mix of swords and bows but have no idea where I could find these>

Thanks
Well lances were issued from central stores at the start of each campaign. (documented from 1204 onwards). There are descriptions of 'Mongol' troops without lances, but these are peacetime rather than war time. We also have manuscript illustrations (from c 1350 onwards) of troops with sword and shield (the long sword and shield was a cavalry melee weapon that was used as an alternative to the two handed lance or two handed mace), but these are 'light' cavalry (body armour, no horse armour) rather than heavies.

Nice to see someone trying not to to have every weapon on every figure. I thought that Museum had some heavies firing bows though.

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Post by lonehorseman » Tue May 04, 2010 10:55 am

Not too fond of the museum mongols TBH I have used them but i somehow feel they lack the detail I would like....I like the javelin holder that Khurasan has on one of its figures (could be a steppe auxilliary) and the fact that their models are split waist so that despite the fact that they will now ,sadly, all have the same weapons the poses can differ drastically with a few 'Parthian" shots thrown in for good measure.

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Post by BeansNFranks » Tue May 04, 2010 11:25 am

I like Black Hat Mongols. They have spear because the dudes had spears. I say ignore the FoG classification. There is a reason the Mongol Heavy Cav models all have spears...

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Post by Delbruck » Tue May 04, 2010 12:00 pm

I think the unarmored Khurasan Hun makes a better Mongols than the armored, but having said that if I had Khurasan armored Huns I wouldn't have a problem using them as Mongols.

Essex makes armored and unarmored Ilkhanid horse archers.

Legio Heroica plans on releasing a range of Ilkhanids this summer.

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Post by ethan » Tue May 04, 2010 1:07 pm

BeansNFranks wrote:I say ignore the FoG classification. There is a reason the Mongol Heavy Cav models all have spears...
Lots of troops classed as Bw/Sw in FoG also carried spears/lances. The FoG rational is that they are not specialist in using them, just possessing them doesn't matter. Having the skill and inclination to use them highly effectively is what matters. I find it unlikely for instance that there is basically anyone fighting without some sort of sidearm (sword, mace, axe, club, whatever) yet not all troops are classed as having the "Sword" capability.

The classification is supposed to represent some skill level in using them at perhaps the top 50% level or something, not simple possession of the item. Rather than think of it as having the weapon think of it as a grading. Cavalry with lances are "heavy shock cavalry", cavalry with light spears are "shock cavalry" and everyone else is just cavalry or something. There are other places that it is best to think of the capability rather than the weapons, the "spearmen" classification for foot is notable. Vikings are armed with all sorts of things, but still classed as spearmen.

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Post by spikemesq » Tue May 04, 2010 2:49 pm

To echo Ethan's point, I don't take the "Swordsmen" category literally, especially for mounted. I think the combat factor accounts for troops armed with any melee weapons if they were proficient in extended fights based on trading blows and not relying on the impetus of their charge or rigid formations -- e.g., shield walls. So those fighting with maces, axes, spears, etc. might still be classified as "Swordsmen" for POA purposes.

Spike

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Post by BlackPrince » Wed May 05, 2010 2:28 am

I used Allain Touller figures for my Mongols, the figures have great detail and a wide variety including dismounted cav. My two issues with Allain Touller are;
1. his shipping costs are high if you only want to order a small number of figures as he uses a flat rate so great for large orders bad if you want to order some top up figures.
2. The figures are a true 15mm and fine so with scale creep now days it can be hard to mix them with other brands.

Colours;
Men I used browns and blues and then added in some red and yellow to represent the wearing of captured silk clothes.
Horses I used Vallejo Yellow Ochre 913, to my eye it is the closed colour to the Przewalski's Horse (Mongol Pony) at my local Zoo. Mongol guard cav rode Black horses so I used black for their horses.
Keith

It was better to leave disputing about the faith to the theologians and just run argumentative non-believers through with the sword (Louis IX).

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Mongol lancers

Post by texputter » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:56 pm

I cut off some of the lances and replace them with bows or swords (or shape the lances into bows or swords). This is especially easy to do with Essex figures since the lances are thick. You can also bend the arms on some of the models to add a little variety.

Sorry for the late suggestion, but I just got here!

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Re: Mongol lancers

Post by philqw78 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:27 pm

texputter wrote:Sorry for the late suggestion, but I just got here!
People will still read it and take note for future use anyway.
phil
putting the arg into argumentative

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Post by Delbruck » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:52 pm

You could also use Essex Ilkhanids (perhaps mixed with some lance armed Mongol heavies):

Image

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Post by Skullzgrinda » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:23 pm

Legio Heroica have Mongol heavy cavalry with a mix of bows and shields.

http://www.legio-heroica.com/Mongoli-en.html

Beautiful minis. The horses are smallish steppe ponies, as they should be.

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Post by berthier » Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:21 pm

Old Glory Mongol Cavalry can be ordered by weapon type: bows or melee weapons.

http://oldglory15s.com/catalog/index.ph ... 45&sort=3a
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tadamson
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Post by tadamson » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:03 pm

Skullzgrinda wrote:Legio Heroica have Mongol heavy cavalry with a mix of bows and shields.

http://www.legio-heroica.com/Mongoli-en.html

Beautiful minis. The horses are smallish steppe ponies, as they should be.
Pity about the chaps using lance and bow at the same time, you only see this at the very end of the Mongol period (Timurids, late Black Sheep Turks etc) when some cavalry change from 2 handed Asiatic lances to a European couched lance approach.
Tom..

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Post by Irmin » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:37 am

So we have:

Khurasan's Huns
Legio heroica's mongols
Old glory's mongols
Essex's ilkhanids (and huns for LH)

A nice collection of figures but if you wanted to mix and match amongst suppliers to get more even variety whose figures fit with who?

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Post by Bagration » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:00 pm

So we have:

Khurasan's Huns
Legio heroica's mongols
Old glory's mongols
Essex's ilkhanids (and huns for LH)

A nice collection of figures but if you wanted to mix and match amongst suppliers to get more even variety whose figures fit with who?


I have an extensive Ilkhanid Army and the only advice I would offer is that I wouldn't mix Essex in the same unit with Khurassan or Old Glory. The figures are just too different in size to work in my opinion. I have a fair number of lance-armed Mongols from Museum that I like quite a bit. To avoid visual confusion for my opponents, I add banners on most of the lances. Makes the unit look sharp and adds a good deal of color.

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Post by marco » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:12 pm

i will add donnington miniature in the new era
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Post by Jilu » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:00 am

Mix on the stands lance and bow mini's. If you mix them with command Mini's the unit will not look as Lancers CV

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