Early Achaemenid Persian Army

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shadowdragon
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Early Achaemenid Persian Army

Post by shadowdragon » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:28 pm

Latest army to be completed....although this is oldest of the ancient armies I own. Most of the army is about 15 years old and consists of Essex figures painted up for DBM. However, with FoG several units had to be augmented as there are few odd BG sizes in FoG. Also, since I found I really enjoyed playing FoG, some of the BG became larger so that they could be used in other armies. Examples - the Babylonian foot are now part of a Late Babylonian army that is in the process of being painted up, the Libyan javelinmen & chariots (actually Carthaginian chariots but I'm not sure anyone makes late Libyan chariots) and the Phoenician marines are part of a Carthaginian army while the two Indian BG might some day become part of an Indian army...or at least a Allied Force and with the new Xyston expanded range of Skythians, who knows? Perhaps a Skythian army....I just need to see what happens to FoG 2.0. :wink:

The photos should be self-explanatory. The colours of the rather-too-gaudy-for-my-tastes Persians are based on the colours in the Osprey book. They probably would work better in 28mm, but here we are one of the more gaudy armies around....the Early Achaemenid Persians.

It's probably about 1600-1700 points and it shows my underlying philosophy of ideally acquiring enough figures to build the maximum army allowed. For this army I'm only missing the early Persian chariots and the special "funnies" for the 546 BC campaign. I have the Greeks but chose not to put them in this picture....there's enough figures anyway.

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Post by philqw78 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:37 pm

Black Hat do some very nice mobile towers. I have three, painted by someone else. I bought the fourth to do myself, but gave up as it will never look as good as the others. So I have 1 BG of towers and the odd one guarding the camp
phil
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Re: Early Achaemenid Persian Army

Post by hazelbark » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:12 pm

shadowdragon wrote: The photos should be self-explanatory. The colours of the rather-too-gaudy-for-my-tastes Persians are based on the colours in the Osprey book. They probably would work better in 28mm, but here we are one of the more gaudy armies around....the Early Achaemenid Persians.
Broadly speaking I have moved to favor more colorful armies on the table in 15mm in particular. Maybe it is the aged eyes. But it is just better spectacle. So please cultivate more persian tastes.

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Post by shadowdragon » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:14 pm

philqw78 wrote:Black Hat do some very nice mobile towers. I have three, painted by someone else. I bought the fourth to do myself, but gave up as it will never look as good as the others. So I have 1 BG of towers and the odd one guarding the camp
Thanks, Phil....although this could be seen as supporting my miniature-meglomania. :wink:

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Re: Early Achaemenid Persian Army

Post by shadowdragon » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:20 pm

hazelbark wrote:
shadowdragon wrote: The photos should be self-explanatory. The colours of the rather-too-gaudy-for-my-tastes Persians are based on the colours in the Osprey book. They probably would work better in 28mm, but here we are one of the more gaudy armies around....the Early Achaemenid Persians.
Broadly speaking I have moved to favor more colorful armies on the table in 15mm in particular. Maybe it is the aged eyes. But it is just better spectacle. So please cultivate more persian tastes.
I really agree that I don't things to look like they might have appeared in real life....i.e., lots of mud and s**t. Everything would look alike. My eyes are aging too and I need ways to quick identify different units. However, too many colours and with my eyese everything blends together. So, I'm still experimenting.

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Re: Early Achaemenid Persian Army

Post by hazelbark » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:23 pm

shadowdragon wrote: I really agree that I don't things to look like they might have appeared in real life....i.e., lots of mud and s**t. Everything would look alike. My eyes are aging too and I need ways to quick identify different units. However, too many colours and with my eyese everything blends together. So, I'm still experimenting.
As a historical matter I am not sure "real life" was so drab.

Certainly at one level. But for instance on structures the "ancients" were brightly colored. Nearly all the marble statues of antiquity were tarted up with enough colors to make one vomit. The babylonians gate of Ishtar (IIRC) was fired with a blue glaze. A the blue was pretty compelling. Byzantine icons, banners. We see Medieval heraldry. Asians had lots of dyes.

In general I suspect there was more color than we sometimes think.

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Re: Early Achaemenid Persian Army

Post by shadowdragon » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:19 pm

hazelbark wrote:
shadowdragon wrote: I really agree that I don't things to look like they might have appeared in real life....i.e., lots of mud and s**t. Everything would look alike. My eyes are aging too and I need ways to quick identify different units. However, too many colours and with my eyese everything blends together. So, I'm still experimenting.
As a historical matter I am not sure "real life" was so drab.

Certainly at one level. But for instance on structures the "ancients" were brightly colored. Nearly all the marble statues of antiquity were tarted up with enough colors to make one vomit. The babylonians gate of Ishtar (IIRC) was fired with a blue glaze. A the blue was pretty compelling. Byzantine icons, banners. We see Medieval heraldry. Asians had lots of dyes.

In general I suspect there was more color than we sometimes think.
I agree with you, but there's a strong "it was drab" war gaming contingent out there. I also think that modern "Western" sensibilities about colour aren't even typical today around the globe never mind throughout history. Anyway, my view is that colours looked vivid to the people at the time regardless of the quality of the dye and colour fastness under campaign conditions, so it's okay if they look vivid to me.

My experimentation is really about how to make something like several Ostrogothic lancer BG's like a varied group within each BG while still allowing me to distinguish the bases of each BG. I'm trying selecting a couple of dominant colours with a dash of other colours here and there so that it looks, to me anyway, like the "blue" lancer BG without being uniformly blue. Someday I'll get the Ostrogoths done and you'll be able to judge my success. :D

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Post by kevinj » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:20 pm

In general I suspect there was more color than we sometimes think.
More colour, but fewer laundry facilities.

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Post by Strategos69 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:03 am

Actually one real problem of manual manufacturing is getting the same exact color. Thus, an alternative is using a mix of vivid colors and more "matt looking". But I am not certain if going for history here would be make it look better of make the painting experience enjoyable.

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Post by shadowdragon » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:08 am

Strategos69 wrote:Actually one real problem of manual manufacturing is getting the same exact color. Thus, an alternative is using a mix of vivid colors and more "matt looking". But I am not certain if going for history here would be make it look better of make the painting experience enjoyable.
The most important thing in my view, is that you paint to please yourself. Hence, the pink-red Bactrian foot above. They were inspired by a picture of some Persian foot from a book by Peter Young* called The War Game: Ten Great Battles Recreated from History which was actual short write ups of historical battles illustrated with photos of miniatures. Has that book inspired me? You bet, most of the periods I collect (and therefore play) are due to that book. :D

* If you don't know who Peter Young might be:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Youn ... igadier%29

The book is no doubt long out of print. My copy is a 1974 reprint.

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Post by Strategos69 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:04 am

Thanks for the suggestion! I totally agree: the painter first! :lol:

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Post by hazelbark » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:56 am

shadowdragon wrote:The most important thing in my view, is that you paint to please yourself. Hence, the pink-red Bactrian foot above. They were inspired by a picture of some Persian foot from a book by Peter Young* called The War Game: Ten Great Battles Recreated from History which was actual short write ups of historical battles illustrated with photos of miniatures. Has that book inspired me? You bet, most of the periods I collect (and therefore play) are due to that book. :D

* If you don't know who Peter Young might be:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Youn ... igadier%29

The book is no doubt long out of print. My copy is a 1974 reprint.
That is the most awesome book. I got a copy when i was like 6 or 8 and must have re-read it a million times. I haven't seen it since the baby came and much of my library got boxed. I can quote from memory captions from it even now. Had it before I knew what wargaming was. Used it as a color guide to paint my airfix waterloo british.

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Post by shadowdragon » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:17 am

hazelbark wrote:
shadowdragon wrote:The most important thing in my view, is that you paint to please yourself. Hence, the pink-red Bactrian foot above. They were inspired by a picture of some Persian foot from a book by Peter Young* called The War Game: Ten Great Battles Recreated from History which was actual short write ups of historical battles illustrated with photos of miniatures. Has that book inspired me? You bet, most of the periods I collect (and therefore play) are due to that book. :D

* If you don't know who Peter Young might be:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Youn ... igadier%29

The book is no doubt long out of print. My copy is a 1974 reprint.
That is the most awesome book. I got a copy when i was like 6 or 8 and must have re-read it a million times. I haven't seen it since the baby came and much of my library got boxed. I can quote from memory captions from it even now. Had it before I knew what wargaming was. Used it as a color guide to paint my airfix waterloo british.
Oh you're such a youngster. My 1974 copy was brand new when I got it and I admit that I was few years more than 6 or 8 at the time. :wink:

But it is a most awesome book and I sill re-read it from time to time.

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Post by hazelbark » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:36 am

shadowdragon wrote:Oh you're such a youngster. My 1974 copy was brand new when I got it and I admit that I was few years more than 6 or 8 at the time. :wink:
Or you assume I am refering to the reprint.

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Post by shadowdragon » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:59 am

hazelbark wrote:
shadowdragon wrote:Oh you're such a youngster. My 1974 copy was brand new when I got it and I admit that I was few years more than 6 or 8 at the time. :wink:
Or you assume I am refering to the reprint.
The original was 1972...I was still more than 6 or 8 at the time. Honestly, it's really just a comment about how fast life goes by.

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Post by nosher » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:56 am

All these posts and not one saying how good the army looks?

Its inspired me to have a go at Persians - lovely looking army!

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Post by shadowdragon » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:28 pm

nosher wrote:All these posts and not one saying how good the army looks?

Its inspired me to have a go at Persians - lovely looking army!
Thanks, nosher. I did take the following as a positive comment on army looks. :D
hazelbark wrote:Broadly speaking I have moved to favor more colorful armies on the table in 15mm in particular. Maybe it is the aged eyes. But it is just better spectacle. So please cultivate more persian tastes.

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Post by gozerius » Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:23 pm

They look great. Puts my pedestrian skills to shame. I'd love to paint like that. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
Thracians
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Post by shadowdragon » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:39 pm

gozerius wrote:They look great. Puts my pedestrian skills to shame. I'd love to paint like that. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
Thanks, gozerius.

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Post by Skipper » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:01 pm

Beautiful army, and to me the colors look great.

I'm on the verge of finishing my Punic war opponents, and Persians are on the short list for next army. I really like your overall look. I'm going the 6mm root though.

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