Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

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loki100
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Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:05 am

So here's a not too detailed Epirus AAR.

This is my second go in a row and its interesting how much varied.

Here Aetolia attacked me on T2, dragging in their Athenian ally. Was happy about this as they are relatively easy to beat and have some high legacy producing regions. By T10, they were gone.

But Illyria attacked, unfortunately for them, by this stage I had the money from Aetolia so raised a small mercenary army and beat off their attack. Then took Drillon (despite all the ethnicity problems), they then got into trouble with the Dardani who attacked me. Again my idea is to accept the decadence/loyalty issues as the silver mines are valuable – and from somewhere I need 10 regions.

So by T16, managed peace with Athens (have no fleet so no point in that war), but still at war with Illyria and Dardani.

Wider picture.

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Rome is not doing as well as in the earlier test. Antigonus has collapsed. Worried about Macedonia (the local super-power). Clearly not going to take my objectives in S Italy for some time.

Doing well for legacy

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You can see the structure gain from the regions I took off Aetolia. Also most of the other Greek factions have been taking emergency levies (at a cost in legacy), so far I've avoided this.

Doing ok on the CDR. I was in the top tier ((hence the progress tokens) but taking just one Illyrian region gave me a huge pile of decadence. Happy enough in tier II for now.

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As you can see from this

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So options. Well I want at least 2 more regions in Illyria both for the province and the silver mines. That'll cost me in decadence.

I'd like to form Greece, which will mean a war with Sparta. I'd like to wait till I can raise Phalanxes for this stage.

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:31 am

Results of the useful (early game) option to add extra health buildings.

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T20, fighting defensively in the Balkans as I have all I want, Trying to get peace.

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First chance to sell slaves so take it (at the least this gives me a large cash pile for mercenaries)

Ok, that reduces my building options but its a trade off I am happy to take.

T22, Illyria makes peace.

T24, become a glorious monarchy. Have enough regions to progress to civ level III when I gain another 5 tokens.

Macedonia is scaring me. Start using my slave money to send them gifts.

So the penalty for being glorious, all my accumulated age adds to my decadence. Should be able to control it though. Here is where lack of access to my objectives becomes a problem.

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T26, Rome becomes an Empire – that was quick.

T28, reduced the Dardanians to two regions and they finally make peace – and I have all the mineral rich ones. So no wars at the moment. Have bribed Macedonia to neutral relations.

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T34, situation in the Peleponese. Think I can beat Athens and take some rich regions – allowing me to form Greece, Won't be able to finish them off (too small a fleet) but that is ok for now.

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Of course, I could lose this war.

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:59 pm

Well opening rounds went well, beat the main Athenian army and sieging Sparta (t37).

But a quick look around puts my provincial issues into context.

At least I co-operate with Damatia (I'd like an alliance), but Macedonia is scary ... I realise I've mentioned this before

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Oh, and Antigonus is no more.

Don't they know I'm busy

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T43, take Achaia, can now form Greece so try for peace with Athens, especially as am losing regions in Illyria. Athens agrees to peace on T45 – I'll deal with them when it suits me.

So by T53, I've driven the Dardani out, dealt with a slave revolt and a bunch of wandering Greeks and have Moesia Superior.

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Macedonia asked to co-operate and I accepted, even if it is no longer so scary.

Rome is expanding steadily and the balance of power in the Balkans keeps on shifting.

Have a large cash stock for emergencies.

Surprisingly high on legacy, mainly thanks to my Greek regions

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As you can see – Arcadia is a great source of legacy

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:11 am

Quick pause and discussion.

This is a tricky point, being Glorious but civ II means my state age converts to decadence. Longer I stay here, harder to get to civ III.

Now I unfortunately am in the middle of the CDR (too much decadence off my Balkan gains) and I can't get at my objectives without a war with Rome. Bit of a problem as this is the stage in development where objective progress tokens are very useful.

So its time for my other response. We are going to have a fiesta. For about 15-20 years.

Unless something comes up. One thing I would like is the citizenship decision. While I often use this to free slaves, variants allow you to reduce your Govt Age:

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I have plenty of money but this will slow pop growth.

Oh and can I just say, having the steam saves in the same place as from the matrix version is wonderful.

Ok, I said I was going to be good. We are having a huge party, even gained a progress token, but look at what is happening in Greece, I mean how can I resist?

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by devoncop » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:16 am

All roads lead to Rome.....

That is the truly worrying sight on that map.....

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:45 am

well Rome is on my list.

Athens has made it possible for me to take all of Greece, if I can do that then I have a very rich economy. No need to deal with Macedon and they actually want to be friends.

At that stage I can build a large defensive army to defend my Balkan regions vs Rome (they hold Dalmatia etc) and improve my main army to invade S Italy. The only thing I really lack now is HC, but have some good regional medium cav from Moesia.

If at war with Rome, I'll settle for S Italy - some of those regions are still Hellenic - and then explore Sicily (Syracuse has survived so a lot of Hellenic regions there too).

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by Lysimachos » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:00 am

Hi loki!

You say "I have plenty of money but this will slow pop growth" ...
What is the rationale behind this statement? I didn't know that money blocked pop growth or am I missing something in the mechanism of the game?

On the other hand - given that I'm also playing a SP Epirus campaign, though with little few achievements rather than yours at turn 35 - I've come to believe that letting apart regions in the balkans is a wiser move, while concentrating all the available forces in Greece.
The real problem with Epirus is that all his objectives are focused on Southern Italy and Sicily, where the Roman presence forbid any move unless you've been able to gain a foothold there in the first turns, what I was prevented to do by early Illiryan and Aetolian aggressions ...
"Audentis fortuna iuvat"
- Virgilius

(Good luck favours the brave)

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by devoncop » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:11 am

Lysimachos wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:00 am
Hi loki!

You say "I have plenty of money but this will slow pop growth" ...
What is the rationale behind this statement? I didn't know that money blocked pop growth or am I missing something in the mechanism of the game?

On the other hand - given that I'm also playing a SP Epirus campaign, though with little few achievements rather than yours at turn 35 - I've come to believe that letting apart regions in the balkans is a wiser move, while concentrating all the available forces in Greece.
The real problem with Epirus is that all his objectives are focused on Southern Italy and Sicily, where the Roman presence forbid any move unless you've been able to gain a foothold there in the first turns, what I was prevented to do by early Illiryan and Aetolian aggressions ...
I am finding the Illyrians a pain in my Epirius MP game too.....like suffering constant midge bites in summer. Not going to kill you but a nuisance nevertheless. :).

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:38 am

Lysimachos wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:00 am
Hi loki!

You say "I have plenty of money but this will slow pop growth" ...
What is the rationale behind this statement? I didn't know that money blocked pop growth or am I missing something in the mechanism of the game?

On the other hand - given that I'm also playing a SP Epirus campaign, though with little few achievements rather than yours at turn 35 - I've come to believe that letting apart regions in the balkans is a wiser move, while concentrating all the available forces in Greece.
The real problem with Epirus is that all his objectives are focused on Southern Italy and Sicily, where the Roman presence forbid any move unless you've been able to gain a foothold there in the first turns, what I was prevented to do by early Illiryan and Aetolian aggressions ...
The money comment is game specific. I've kept my army small, mostly by raising and dismissing mercenaries to need. So I've basically moved all my citizens to culture to get out of level 2, so almost no pop growth but I don't need to worry over money. Also pop in culture produce some money.

As to objectives I think you have to forget about them unless Rome has a really bad start. I think I am now rich enough to plan towards a war with them once I get into civ 3. At that stage I can shift back from culture to money production.

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:41 am

devoncop wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:11 am
Lysimachos wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:00 am
Hi loki!

You say "I have plenty of money but this will slow pop growth" ...
What is the rationale behind this statement? I didn't know that money blocked pop growth or am I missing something in the mechanism of the game?

On the other hand - given that I'm also playing a SP Epirus campaign, though with little few achievements rather than yours at turn 35 - I've come to believe that letting apart regions in the balkans is a wiser move, while concentrating all the available forces in Greece.
The real problem with Epirus is that all his objectives are focused on Southern Italy and Sicily, where the Roman presence forbid any move unless you've been able to gain a foothold there in the first turns, what I was prevented to do by early Illiryan and Aetolian aggressions ...


I am finding the Illyrians a pain in my Epirius MP game too.....like suffering constant midge bites in summer. Not going to kill you but a nuisance nevertheless. :).
Aye, in an earlier test I conquered one faction and bribed the other. Raids in already poor border regions are best ignored but you want a buffer to Epirus. Plan any conquests with careful attention to the mineral resources.

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by Geffalrus » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:12 pm

Hey, how are you getting your good screenshots? I thought it would be F2 like it is in FoG2, but that's actually bound to a map filter I think. Would love to be able to post something similar to what you did with Epirus for one of my many Antigonid run-throughs.

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:57 pm

I use a paid for bit of software -faststone capture - as I also use it a lot for my work. Really useful for the old AGE games as they were tricky to take images of.

There used to be a freeware version but that was bundelled with some horrible software, not sure if that is still available or has been improved?

beyond that I guess printscreen and something like paint.net to crop etc would do?

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Screenshot

Post by springel » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:41 pm

Fraps still works fine with this game. (I bought that program 20 years ago or so).

For screenshots the only limitation for the free version is that it saves as BMP, not in a compressed form, so you have to convert them manually if you want to upload them somewhere (use free Irfanview for batch conversion of a whole set)

You can configure the hotkey for a screenshot (I use the convenient PrtSc key, that is what it is for anyway), and the save location.

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:10 pm

Sigh

I mean I am busy with Athens, my population is off on a 15 year party and people keep on interrupting.

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ok, basically I have two small armies in the border regions, I don't want their regions so I'll defend.

But its always a good idea to have a look at the trade good overlay (I tend to play with the ownership display), just to see if there is anything juicy within reach. In this case they have one region with an iron mine, I'll take that when I can as it borders my regions.

Also this is where it helps to sit on a cash pile if you can, I can raise enough units locally to improve my 2 defensive armies.

This is why you often want one region (at least) to go deep into the food buildings. Its not that this is especially valuable in itself but it makes Papyrus.

And that makes all your useful (but horrifically expensive) education buildings so much more cheap to run:

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So T75 was a bit of a disaster. A large Dardanian army beat mine in a border region, my assault on Euboia failed (again) with heavy losses. But ... its Empire time.

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Anyway, I move around the nation reminding my citizens that the party is over, time to make infrastructure and food again

T84, war with Athens drags on, not helped by them taking my regions. Also now at war with the Dacians and the Dardani. Both of these I am content to defend and keep on trying for peace.

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Macedonia has recovered so glad I opted to stay friendly with them.

Anyway took to T90, but Athens is finished. Only blemish was Macedonia grabbed a Greek region while the war was going on.

Got the first of these, useful as I have a lot of medium cavalry.

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And the legacy reward for Atticus.

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Only issue is I now have a lot of slaves so could do with the selling decision coming up a few times to get it all back under control.

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:00 pm

I presume there is a name for this sort of victory?

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aye right

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I guess that delays any war with Rome, at least the Dardani agree to a peace treaty. T95. Dacia takes peace – it had captured the region I'd taken from the Dardani, so I gained nothing from 20 years of war. Not that I wanted to take much.

But now I'm in this war, I may as well take everything up to Byzantium, if I can.

I could also really do with the slave selling routine coming up.

By t105, the war with Macedonia has become rather vicious. Regions swapping back and forth and some huge battles. I'm sort of winning but its not easy.


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Just built a lot of slave markets in an attempt to get the decision to sell to appear ... I really need to clear out my slaves. Only have two regions with a revolt risk but lots with loyalty in the 50s,

Finally get some allies – Byzantion (sort of along the lower Danube) and Lycia (island offshore of Asia Minor). Not much but it all helps.

T106, win some major battles, if I'm lucky my aim now is to regain some valuable regions I've lost and then agree a peace. I've conquered Macedonia and should gain Thrace over the next few turns

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Not shown in that image but the Seleucids have not only survived – they are huge.

At last:

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T116

Have driven the Macedonians into Asia Minor so time for peace (88% chance). Now I need to deal with Rome (or at least get my objectives and stall their legacy growth) but first I want to take Crete and the Aegean. The provincial unit (archers) are incredibly useful in Empires' battles due to their high support value.

By the way, always build at least one of these – its worth it. Yes it gives decadence and sometimes costs you money but its a little legacy mine to be honest. You need to take the earlier gambling buildings first.

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Heres the wider map to my east. As mentioned, the Seleucids are very powerful, to the south Ptolemy is doing ok.

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And an overview. I need another token for a glorious Empire.

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Just had the decision to reform my light infantry. And can improve my light cavalry using a master stables I found in Agriania.

So we're reasonably well set.

Just most of my loyalty is in the mid-50s so vulnerable to slipping into real trouble, still need to sell a lot more slaves to bring this back under control.

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by 13obo » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:10 pm

Heya, doing pretty well! What difficulty are you playing?

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:18 pm

very difficult, I find that a good balance point. Above it and its really tricky, you basically need to play knowing you'll end up decadent. At this level, if you use all the tools you have some chance of avoiding this - at least till after T400 etc.

thing with Epirus is one of your modifiers really makes taking Hellene regions fairly easy - its when you move beyond these it all gets very tricky

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:37 pm

So start to absorb the Aegean and find this – rather handy

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Macedonia has accepted the peace offer.

One reason to have the Black Market building

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Well if they insist

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Ok, but I really want to take on Rome if you don't mind

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If I can, I'll see if I can Lycia et al for their legacy production.

So that is up to T140, a mostly peaceful period, but I'll see what this Macedonian war brings. I'm actually not too keen to wreck them as the Seleucids are still expanding and I'd like a strong buffer state.

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by mgardner » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:08 pm

Just want to say I am really enjoying your AAR, you’ve struck a great balance between narrative and screenshots. Thanks for taking the time to do this!

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Re: Hyping up Epirus ... a partial AAR

Post by loki100 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:47 am

mgardner wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:08 pm
Just want to say I am really enjoying your AAR, you’ve struck a great balance between narrative and screenshots. Thanks for taking the time to do this!
thank you, glad it works. I decided to try and skip too much detail but set out the logic, constraints and where the feedback routines are not clear on early playings of the game

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