Erik's Campaigns

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wwiiogre
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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by wwiiogre » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:04 pm

Hi Erik and thanks for all the work bringing the Panzer Corps scenarios to OOB.

I do have one comment after starting the Blitzkrieg campaign.

You have replaced some of the Polish Air Fields with the destructible small airfields from OOB. Unfortunately, they take time to destroy which takes away time to advance. Unlike the larger airfields that you can occupy and roll thru. The first time I played thru this scenario I realized that it caused me to almost not complete the scenario. I had to hit the airfields with the minimum of three units plus arty and air if I wanted to take them in one turn. This can be difficult to do and still deal with the other Polish units in the area. Not impossible, but difficult if you do not realize it could delay your advance and your chance to finish the scenario on time.

I have never liked the way Panzer Corps and even OOB deal with time limits on scenarios. I prefer the way Steel Panthers and Steel Panthers World At War dealt with it. Instead of pass or fail, you could get a branching campaign path or end up with less points to spend on the next scenario if you finished late or more points if you finished significantly early.

In OOB I feel this could be an under utilized way to make this game even more replayable.

Thanks again for all the hard work.

Chris

Horst
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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Horst » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:46 pm

I somehow have no luck with this custom campaign. All the original campaigns worked fine for me so far.
I basically defeated myself through 3Lodz just to get another defeat in the end after being completely victorious object-wise on the 4Piatek map. 2DanzigN was the only map so far that worked right from start to the end.
I’ve checked the scenarios in the editor myself, but as layman, I see no mistake there.

Eric, can you please test my save if you get a victory screen when pressing end turn?
I’ve also attached my Lodz save if you are curious.
Attachments
[Blitzkrieg 1939-40] Lodz+Piatek.7z
(22.16 KiB) Downloaded 99 times

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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Horst » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:13 am

I slowly start to get an idea about these flawed triggers.

3Lodz: most capture-city triggers work fine, but the Ger Lodz additionally checks for the scenario turn limit with a Capture VP Event. That possibly means that you would have to capture the city Lodz at the last turn or the scenario end what is maybe not possible (anymore). I captured the city much earlier, so this trigger can’t fire anymore later as long as I don’t capture whatever other city in the end. I don’t what the game can still trigger at scenario end.

4Piatek: you can’t trigger the primary objectives by the Capture VP Event as long as these hexes never switch sides and the German triggers are inactive from start. Similar with the bridges, although in my case, it triggered and completed the objective for the bridges when the AI captured the irrelevant town Beldow in turn 2. It’s difficult to follow all these trigger conditions here. I would remove all these complicated primary conditions and simply check the hex-ownership of all relevant hexes at scenario end at turn start or whatever always works in the end.

6Kampinoska: the trains start escaping right from turn 1 on. The Polish transports triggers check for units near hex within a 2 hex radius. The error here is that the land-unit amount is set to = 0 for the black alliance, the player. This way, the triggers for all polish trains fire right from start as there are 0 player units nearby. You have to replace the amount = 0 with > 0 to make them wait for player land-units to arrive in the 2-hex radius.
By the way, if you like your city objectives fail here as long as Polish units are present then you may not check for team 1 but the red alliance. Team 1 isn’t defined.

Something in general about your city-triggers: if you only make them fire once here and there, what happens if the player conquers the cities successfully but the AI recaptures them later? Does this mean the player will never be able to complete these objectives anymore when the player recaptures the city objectives afterwards? Maybe setting an infinite amount of trigger frequency is better there to keep this dynamic.
And there we got possibly another flaw in the triggers with the Capture VP Event in scenarios. You often check if red-alliance units are still in a 2-hex radius, but how can the player complete a city objective successfully then if you possibly just pushed an AI unit out of it that is still within 2 hexes? On the next turn, you can’t possibly trigger whatever Capture VP Event anymore, as you have already conquered the city in the previous turn and an AI unit is still within 2 hexes anyway. You will possibly fail an objective throughout the scenario and especially in the end when there can’t be any Capture VP Events anymore. Maybe an infinite Turn-Start trigger is the better choice or whatever else works at scenario end too for these capture-objectives.

I haven’t checked the all the other 20+ scenarios yet, but similar problems like above could happen there too.

Erik2
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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Erik2 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:57 am

I have changed the flip-flop triggers to regular check hex owner.
The scenario end turn trigger is used for forcing the scenario to play to the end. I think it means you need to hold the objective at the last turn.
This is to allow players getting any secondary objectives without having to delay one primary.

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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Horst » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:14 pm

I forgot to suggest an exit zone for the player on each map. It’s always useful to replace units, may it damaged if you lack coins or not be the desired type due unexpected scenario development. In particular planes can benefit from it when airfields get lost or when you like to switch fighters against tactical bombers after gaining air superiority. That brings a nice additional strategic option for the player with a little off-map unit rotation, so reserve units don't get too rusty. It all depends if such is permitted according to the scenario of course.

Edit: exit zones on rail tracks would be good for land units, as using roads usually takes longer to travel back and forth. They would also come handy if the exit zone includes a town as train depot to bring the reserve quickly back to the front. Normally, you can place units from the reserve to whatever free zone around owned towns, so bringing units in isn't such of a problem than out.

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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by LadyLex » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:32 pm

Horst wrote:I forgot to suggest an exit zone for the player on each map. It’s always useful to replace units, may it damaged if you lack coins or not be the desired type due unexpected scenario development. In particular planes can benefit from it when airfields get lost or when you like to switch fighters against tactical bombers after gaining air superiority. That brings a nice additional strategic option for the player with a little off-map unit rotation, so reserve units don't get too rusty. It all depends if such is permitted according to the scenario of course.

Edit: exit zones on rail tracks would be good for land units, as using roads usually takes longer to travel back and forth. They would also come handy if the exit zone includes a town as train depot to bring the reserve quickly back to the front. Normally, you can place units from the reserve to whatever free zone around owned towns, so bringing units in isn't such of a problem than out.
Very interesting idea Horst.

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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by mst007 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:05 pm

Great idea Horst! Thanks Eric for improving the campaign. I`ve just downloaded 39-40 last night and have restarted scenario 1 (Poznan) Will keep an eye out for any problems and report in as necessary. Loving your work, I`d finished with the game and was about to move on, all that has now changed thanks entirely to you!

Erik2
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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Erik2 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:51 pm

The exit point is a good idea. It would be easy to use them at rail exits and also put a village at the location.
I'll add them.

Thanks

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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Boarspear » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:49 pm

These "Panzer Corps" scenarios are great fun! There are quite a few times when "triggers" seem to fail -- is it by design, for example, if you take a town and it gets retaken you "fail" the objective? Nonetheless I really love long campaigns and these have been highly entertaining and somewhat better designed -- dare I say it -- than the new main "Blitzkrieg" scenarios! Thanks.

Erik2
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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Erik2 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:48 am

Objectives lost should only end the game if you fail at both capturing any enemy objectives and defending your own.
Some objectives have a end-of-scenario trigger which means the scenario will always play to the end.

Thanks.
Most of the scenario praise must go to the original designers.
But I am willing to take some credit in enhancing the original scenarios :D

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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Horst » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:38 pm

You haven't fixed the activation triggers for the trains and Warsaw grp in Kampinoska yet. They become active right from start because you check for "amount = 0" black-alliance land units within the given radius. It should be "amount > 0". You can quickly see this for yourself if you cheat with #orbitalcommand and press the End Turn button for the first time. It's kind of frustrating to play a scenario for many turns only to know later that you can't complete an objective anymore due faulty triggers. I was carefully this time and checked it before playing.
Wouldn't it be better to make the trains also retreat if they spot air units? Otherwise you can pick them off easily with Stukas.

Still nice to see the new own exit-points on the map!

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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by mst007 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:37 pm

Do we download the newer versions with the exit points from the scenario vault? (ie 65107 thread) Erik?

Thanks, Mark

Erik2
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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Erik2 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:29 am

Horst wrote:You haven't fixed the activation triggers for the trains and Warsaw grp in Kampinoska yet. They become active right from start because you check for "amount = 0" black-alliance land units within the given radius. It should be "amount > 0". You can quickly see this for yourself if you cheat with #orbitalcommand and press the End Turn button for the first time. It's kind of frustrating to play a scenario for many turns only to know later that you can't complete an objective anymore due faulty triggers. I was carefully this time and checked it before playing.
Wouldn't it be better to make the trains also retreat if they spot air units? Otherwise you can pick them off easily with Stukas.

Still nice to see the new own exit-points on the map!
Fixed Kampinoska and the trains will now retreat whatever German units are nearby.
I have attached the scenario here and updated the dropbox link.
Attachments
7Kampinoska.zip
(1.67 MiB) Downloaded 161 times

Erik2
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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Erik2 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:29 am

mst007 wrote:Do we download the newer versions with the exit points from the scenario vault? (ie 65107 thread) Erik?

Thanks, Mark
Yes, you need the latest version.

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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Horst » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:55 pm

Finally got past that cursed forest of Kampinoska. Warsaw grp was still active right from start but that was only beneficial for my tanks to overrun these troops on open ground.
Got to Modlin now and noticed there is a road-bridge missing in Pultusk what makes it sluggish to pass with units. At least I didn't notice any demolition action there.
Edit: missing event picture for destroying the armored train (Śmierć).
Edit2: Not that the bunkers & fort secondary objective really matters with those +6 air command points when you have possibly already wiped clean the whole map, but you should have informed the player that airstrips also count as bunkers and forts. I almost missed that airstrip to the north in the end. No idea what was wrong with the fortresses, as they didn't fire a single shot the whole time.

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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Horst » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:16 pm

Warsaw victory wasn’t triggering for me after owning all victory locations and cleansing the whole map from units. The artillery secondary object wasn’t accomplishable either.
I see no trigger for the destroy all land-units secondary objective, so I guess a major victory isn’t possible there no matter what. I’m glad #igotnukes to carry on to Norway.

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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Erik2 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:24 pm

Horst

Pultusk bridge: There's a crossroad on the river, this negates the bridge. Fixed.
Similar; a rail/road combo needs to cross the river at the same hexes sides for bridges to work.

Structures: I didn't know airstrips were classified as structures. I have replaced the general structure unit trigger with specific unit types.

Added missing train graphic.

I've noticed that most of the structures including coastal gun is very reluctant to fire. I think something happened in one of the later game upgrades.

Thanks for the detailed feedback. Only way for me to fix issues.

Modlin attached and campaign updated
Attachments
8Modlin.zip
(1.82 MiB) Downloaded 85 times

Horst
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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Horst » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:32 pm

I play with modified stats, but fortresses were shooting fine so far. Maybe they don't get along with specific AI settings like defend or something? Testing fortresses on a test-map works fine for me without giving them any special AI behavior. Maybe it helps to remove any AI behaviors. They can't do much besides shooting anyway.

Oh, I see you have added an invasion of Denmark map. Niiiice! Quite huge for a 6-hour event!

Erik2
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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Erik2 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:48 am

I actually do not attach the fortresses/coastal guns to AI teams. There are no orders that seem to fit.
In fact, when I tried various land/naval orders they tended to be more passive...

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Re: Erik's Campaigns

Post by Horst » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:08 pm

The coastal guns didn’t fire either in Denmark and a quick test in Norway showed the same. Testing fortresses and coastal guns on a tiny map with few units works fine. It’s like their processing order is skipped on maps with lots of units. That’s strange and a job for the dev department.

Okay, this is weird: on the campaign screen for Norway, you can click on that circle that is marked as Denmark. This way, you can switch the Norway scenario to Denmark.
I first thought this is optional, but after Denmark I was sent to Belgium what is obviously a disappointment which I have manually fixed in the data.cmp file now.
According to your data.cmp file, Denmark comes after Norway?

Denmark: the primary objective with supply line to Skagen didn’t work for me, the rest of the objectives did fine.
Denmark is well done with the named units, huge map and army at your disposal, but you simply have too many units to move and not enough to battle most of the time. What I liked most were these recruitment centers, spitting out enemies like a monster generator portal in fantasy games. The time progresses there too fast for this 6-hour conflict which is historically required for the Norway invasion afterwards.
The scenario is somehow too time-consuming without much gameplay. I wish I could have skipped this in the end as there was no real challenge.

I’ve already missed Brest due minor victory in Warsaw due trigger failure, which scenario I totally forgot from PzC, but I can live with that.

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