Asculum Rome vs Pyrrhus

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IanB3406
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Asculum Rome vs Pyrrhus

Post by IanB3406 » Fri May 15, 2009 11:39 am

I'm working on a scenario for this battle that we will refight in Korea. Have looked at Lost Battles for some OOB's, with a nod to the C&C scenario.

We selected about 500:1 for the infantry and about 250 to 400 : 1 for the mounted.

Some notes: The Lost Battles' OB gives a huge amount of troops listed as Samnites, Lucinian, Bruttians. At the nominal 250:1 scale the fog lists do not allow near this many. Lost Battles does not give the Greeks any skirmishers, while giving the Romans 3 units. Even at 500:1 i'm couldn't really have a FOG "legal" list.....however I decided to take some of these troops as skirmishers as I assume that the Pyrrhic forces would have had some, and Indeed C&C ancients allowed some. Interstingly enough the C&C ancient Unit count looked something more like a FOG game at 13 per side.

Lost Battles gave the Pyrrhic forces two elephant units, however I allowed only one.



CinC, Pyrrhus IC - - - - - - CinC 1
Subs TC - - - - - - - 2
Pike HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen - 8
Pike HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen - 8
Pike HF Protected Average Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen - 10
Tarantine Pike HF Protected Poor Drilled - Pikemen Pikemen - 8
Hoplites HF Protected Average Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 8
Samnites, Lucinian, Bruttians MF Protected Average Drilled - Light spear Swordmen - 8
Samnites, Lucinian, Bruttians MF Protected Average Drilled - Light spear Swordmen - 6
Archers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 6
Archers LF Unprotected Average Undrilled Bow - - - 6
Agema Cv Armoured Superior Drilled - Lancers Swordmen - 4
Jav armed Cav Cv Armoured Superior Drilled - Light spear Swordmen - 6
Tarantines LH Unprotected Average Drilled Javelins Light Spear - - 4
Elephants El - Average Undrilled - - - - 2


Roman's next....

IanB3406
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Post by IanB3406 » Fri May 15, 2009 3:11 pm

OK, here are the Romans. I have rated the allied legions the same as the standing legions, which means average. The romans are also organized as 4 stand units. The Roman Army ended up much larger in BG size,even if the stand count is the same.

CinC TC - - - - - - CinC 1
Subs TC - - - - - - - 2
- - - - - - - -
Hastati and Principes HF Armoured Average Drilled - Impact foot Swordmen - 4
Hastati and Principes HF Armoured Average Drilled - Impact foot Swordmen - 4
Hastati and Principes HF Armoured Average Drilled - Impact foot Swordmen - 4
Hastati and Principes HF Armoured Average Drilled - Impact foot Swordmen - 4
Hastati and Principes HF Armoured Average Drilled - Impact foot Swordmen - 4
Hastati and Principes HF Armoured Average Drilled - Impact foot Swordmen - 4
Triarii HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 2
Triarii HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 2
Triarii HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 2
Allied Hastati and Principes HF Armoured Average Drilled - Impact foot Swordmen - 4
Allied Hastati and Principes HF Armoured Average Drilled - Impact foot Swordmen - 4
Allied Hastati and Principes HF Armoured Average Drilled - Impact foot Swordmen - 4
Allied Hastati and Principes HF Armoured Average Drilled - Impact foot Swordmen - 4
Allied Triarii HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 2
Allied Triarii HF Armoured Superior Drilled - Offensive spearmen Spearmen - 2
Velites LF Protected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 6
Velites LF Protected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 6
Velites LF Protected Average Undrilled Javelins Light spear - - 6
Cavalry Cv Armoured Average Undrilled - Light spear Swordmen - 6
Cavalry Cv Armoured Average Undrilled - Light spear Swordmen - 4

IanB3406
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Post by IanB3406 » Fri May 15, 2009 3:26 pm

Interestingly enough, the armies ended up very close point-wise. This included giving the Greeks and IC and two TC, and the Romans 3 TC.

845 Romans - 808 Pyrrhic.

If anyone has any suggestions on OOB, feel free. Hopefully I'll have a report in a couple weeks.

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Post by marioslaz » Sat May 16, 2009 8:34 am

Lucinians? Perhaps Lucanians? I don't understand why you make 3 legions of Romani and 2 of Latini (Allied). I suggest you make 4 legions (2 of Romans and 2 of Latini, each with correct proportion of velites). Then you should introduce Dauni as Romans allied (you can use troops like Sanniti, because they should be Oscan people). I would use also an allied general for each side. In Pyrrhic army I would put a Macedonian Ally General, since there was a big contingent of Macedonian and Greek people. In Roman army an allied general for Dauni troops.
Last, you can give to Romans some War Wagons to simulate anti elephant weapons, but it seems they didn't worked fine and against elephants the bigger damages were made by arrows and javelins.
I hope this can help.
Mario Vitale

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Post by IanB3406 » Sat May 16, 2009 6:10 pm

Lucinians? Perhaps Lucanians?

Yes, Lucanians....
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I don't understand why you make 3 legions of Romani and 2 of Latini (Allied).

The breakout in Legions is directly from Lost Battles, which says "....the combined consular armies of Decius and Sulpicius, each with 2 leigions plus allied contingents" (so actuallly like 4 and 4 allied? but we dont' have the figures for the full scale esp on the Pyrhhic side) And then give the break out of 13 units, 7 Roman and 6 Allied. I have just scaled this down to approx ~500 or so per stand, and came up with 3/2......I'm trying to scale this to what figures we have, but your suggestion may be better....
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I suggest you make 4 legions (2 of Romans and 2 of Latini, each with correct proportion of velites). Then you should introduce Dauni as Romans allied (you can use troops like Sanniti, because they should be Oscan people). I would use also an allied general for each side. In Pyrrhic army I would put a Macedonian Ally General, since there was a big contingent of Macedonian and Greek people.

I have to believe that the Macedonians and Greeks that came over with Pyrrhus would be part of his corps troops....I believe that is how the FOG list interprets them.

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In Roman army an allied general for Dauni troops.
Last, you can give to Romans some War Wagons to simulate anti elephant weapons, but it seems they didn't worked fine and against elephants the bigger damages were made by arrows and javelins.
I hope this can help.

THe Duani are mentioned as sacking the Phrrhic camp, but I really don't know what troops these are, and assumed they were part of the allied legions. They could be lighter equipped? They ran and hid on a wooded hill.

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Post by rbodleyscott » Sat May 16, 2009 10:27 pm

IanB3406 wrote:THe Duani are mentioned as sacking the Phrrhic camp, but I really don't know what troops these are, and assumed they were part of the allied legions. They could be lighter equipped? They ran and hid on a wooded hill.
They were one of the tribes of the Apulians (an Illyrian/Oscan admixture). Their infantry would be MF Protected, Light Spear, Swordsmen. They carried hoplite shields.

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