Unit scale

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jonnieb57
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Unit scale

Post by jonnieb57 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:08 pm

I am interested in designing scenarios again. What is the unit scale currently in use for your battles for the different units? Thanks.

Horseman
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Re: Unit scale

Post by Horseman » Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:07 pm

There's no set scale on the game. And that's for the map as well as units.

So you can set the scale to be what ever you want it to be

jonnieb57
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Unit scale

Post by jonnieb57 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:53 pm

Thanks. I was thinking along this line, but it is nice to hear it confirmed.

Horseman
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Re: Unit scale

Post by Horseman » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:58 am

jonnieb57 wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:53 pm
Thanks. I was thinking along this line, but it is nice to hear it confirmed.
No probs. And if anyone wants proof - just look at Stalingrad, the citie takes up most of the map...in the next scenario its reduced to three hexes!

NETSCAPE
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Re: Unit scale

Post by NETSCAPE » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:22 pm

I'm thinking about making a (fictional, but within reality) campaign where the player has 2 Panzer Divisions to command (attached units will be "auxiliary" slots instead of core units). I suppose could make for interesting coop play as well... :)

Basically I am settled on 1 infantry/tank unit = 1 battalion. There some exceptions however... like artillery batteries, Luftwaffe unit = 1 staffel perhaps...ect ect

You could get your order of battle from a book or online, and "test" a unit scale idea (division, battalion, company ect) by placing units on a template map in the editor. I noted them down on paper first, but plotting them out in the editor is interesting to see core slots used ect...plus gives me an idea on map sizes that feel correct, not too crowded and what not.

jonnieb57
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Unit scale

Post by jonnieb57 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:13 pm

But first they have to have all of the things operational that are needed to make a scenario.... and I cannot see this yet. There are many creation elements missing.... or am I missing something?

dalfrede
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Re: Unit scale

Post by dalfrede » Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:16 pm

jonnieb57 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:13 pm
But first they have to have all of the things operational that are needed to make a scenario.... and I cannot see this yet. There are many creation elements missing.... or am I missing something?
The scripting functions are being revised/expanded with the first two AO DLCs.
The documentation of the scripting functions have not provided to the mod community.
People are making campaigns with the present tools.

Learning to use the editor does not require scripting.
If you are new to modding it is fine to start now.
If you are a serious modder, like Nikivdd or Akkula you may want to wait.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

Patrick Ward
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Re: Unit scale

Post by Patrick Ward » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:49 am

jonnieb57 wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:13 pm
But first they have to have all of the things operational that are needed to make a scenario.... and I cannot see this yet. There are many creation elements missing.... or am I missing something?
You're not missing anything, as the editor was used to create all the current scenarios and campaigns, but its not that user friendly just yet.
As Dalfrede said, there are improvements in the pipeline.

Pat
............................

Pat a Pixel Pusher

............................

PoorOldSpike
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Re: Unit scale

Post by PoorOldSpike » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:03 am

Hex size calculation-
The WW2 German 105mm artillery piece had a range of about 10,000 yards, and in PC2 their range is 3 hexes which is typical of other nation's 105's too.
Using those maths as a rough guide, each hex is therefore about 3,300 yards wide, or almost 2 miles.
But as guys have said, hex and unit sizes can really be anything we want them to be as the PC2 system is very flexible..:)
Tanks were invented to make war more fun

econ21
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Re: Unit scale

Post by econ21 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:54 pm

PoorOldSpike wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:03 am
The WW2 German 105mm artillery piece had a range of about 10,000 yards, and in PC2 their range is 3 hexes which is typical of other nation's 105's too.
Using those maths as a rough guide, each hex is therefore about 3,300 yards wide, or almost 2 miles.
That's an ingenious way to estimate hex size. I know the whole system is flexible, but your calculation implies the units would be quite large - say a division? If a Soviet infantry division attacked on a 4km front, that's about one hex.

https://balagan.info/infantry-unit-frontages-during-ww2

A divisional or brigade scale seems to characterise some scenarios in Allied Corps. But I'd been thinking the unit size more typically was more like regimental/battalion (as a "Corps" would be about 2-3 divisions, which you could more or less construct in the PzC1 GC). And it doesn't really make sense to have whole divisions of support unit types such as recon, AA etc.

Maybe the conclusion - apart from that the scale is flexible - is that PG type games tend to understate artillery range to make the gameplay simpler. (I have some memory of longer ranged artillery in People's General).
Last edited by econ21 on Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

NETSCAPE
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Re: Unit scale

Post by NETSCAPE » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:51 pm

There does seem to be a confusing amount of scale change both in hex size and unit size. This became most apparent in the Stalingrad mission where aircraft couldn't fly to the city and you had to take new airfields... or artillery couldn't reach targets. In reality Stalingrad stretches about 20km along the Volga but it's depth is less than half of that. Aircraft should be able to reach ANYWHERE on that map. Artillery on the edge of the city should be able to easily shoot the entire depth of the city, reach the Volga and beyond. It is just one example of frustration... basically I am in the camp that it doesn't matter whether a unit represents a whole division or just a platoon - as long as the movement & arty ranges are adjusted correctly. I suppose unit movement could stay the same and the mission designer sets an appropriate turn = X amount of time value.

I just started making a campaign/mod here that addresses the hex/unit scale. I call it "resolution" for some dumb reason lol. Here is my idea that I'm rollin with:
viewtopic.php?f=597&t=102222d

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