Tournament Rules - Abandoning Units

[pupski]

Hello, I read that in the Tournament you can use everything that is available to you in regular gameplay. So I had a situation in the first game of the Invasion tournament where it would be wise and logical to abandon a unit and build one up on a saver place. Those guys were lost anyway and after they are defeated you can also build a new units, credits permitting. So is it save to say that I just can do that and will I loose the VP's for the units like when it is normally defeated?

Love the tournament by the way, I had a good opponent and we played in a timely fashion, mostly a round a day. Shame a lot of plays couldn't be played due to players not showing up. I would easily love to play as a second non ranked player against people whose opponent doesn't show up in the first 3/4 days, like a reserve player. I guess there will be some more trustworthy players who wouldn't mind to play a second unranked match (for them) so more players can have the same fun experience as I had so far.

Thank for any reactions!

[Shards]

Hi,

Disbanding is part of the game mechanics, so we certainly can't disallow it! I had a brain fade in one of my games and deployed an artillery with no supply on an island, so I disbanded that unit very quickly!

Some users prefer not to use disband and have their units fight to the end (thus also ensuring their opponents get the VP points for the kill). I've attacked with units to suicide before, it's given my opponents points, but there's always a chance I'll knock a point off them when they die with honour!

[pupski]

Thanks for your clarification! So the opponent won't get points for a kill when a unit is disbanded. Sounds like a sportsmanship situation. Thanks for the response! Great game, just played my first 1000+ hours, worth every penny

[conboy]

My thoughts on this issue, which were expressed previously in another thread.

I disbanded some units in my first tournament match out of rage and frustration at my opponent who was delivering upon me an unrequested, entirely humiliating ass-whipping.

So when I thought about it -- we are not playing for scenario wins, we are playing for overall points, so it does not help you one whit to disappear a unit that is going to be lost to the opponent. It unfairly denies the opponent rightly-earned points and provides you no benefit, except to put another ugly wart on your soul.

But I think it is fair to remove a unit if it is militarily necessary to re-assemble for a counterattack or last stand, no matter what that unit's status is vis-a-vis the enemy. I am sure that many commanders in wartime faced the dilemma of abandoning units to free resources to save the battle.

Fair is fair, the rules is the rules. I don't think we should penalize players for removing units, but I think we should all count on our opponents' sense of fair play (although it is new-found in my case...)

conboy

[Erik2]

Maybe there could be a (small) VP-deduction whenever you disband a unit.

[pupski]

Thanks for your reaction. I had a search on this subject thread but didn't find any earlier posts, will have to learn to use better search parameters. It is a hard choice I think sometimes because I myself don't care so much on winning or losing but I like to play well and enjoy the process/game. Last game I had this small arty unit that I had no use for and was in the way but I was afraid that disbanding it would steal point from my opponent. I kept it alive by the way until the end. But it would be rules wise okay to disband it. I could have disbanded half of my force because of wrong choices at setup. I still had enough credits even when I had done that. So it's not possible to change the scoring in tournament play, for disbanding units. Because, in my case, I would have disbanded the arty unit if I was sure my opponent would get fair vp's for it. So I made it harder on myself ... difficult!

[Shards]

Maybe there could be a (small) VP-deduction whenever you disband a unit.

Would love to, but there's currently no way to fire a trigger on Disband!

[Erik2]

Maybe there could be a (small) VP-deduction whenever you disband a unit.

Would love to, but there's currently no way to fire a trigger on Disband!

That is why you devs are paid those big salaries

[rth]

Hallo
ich habe in der Aufstellungs-Phase den Sanitäter-Jeep nicht aufgestellt und sofort aufgelöst.
Ein weiterer Aufklärungs-Jeep war mir wichtiger.
Ich hoffe das hat nicht gegen die Regeln verstoßen.
Für die Auflösung habe ich 6 "Credit ?"-Punkte erhalten.
Super Turnier danke macht weiter so.
Meinen Dank auch an yanndab1 für das kontinuierlich schnelle spielen, ... hat richtig Spaß gemacht.
Gruß
Ralf

[Shards]

That's fine. I tend to keep the jeep in my reserve until I'm in desperate need of a unit to block up a hex somewhere and I've run out of cash

[Pinkelephantis]

I have no problem with disbanding units. I don't like the points for destroyed units. It makes it like the Vietnam war i.e. body count is the strategy. We know how that turned out for the U.S. I hope in future games the points rewarded will be for cities taken. That's more like WWII in my opinion. Who cares about the body count if you win the war?

[GabeKnight]

Reminded me instantaneously of this...

"Bloodiest Movie Ever"

HotShots2.jpg (136.24 KiB) Viewed 2896 times

[Shards]

Hi,

The points for units are important for variance in the scores I think, and also make people take at least some care of their units (though you note that you never lose points for getting a unit killed, just that your opponent gains them).

Most of the points are very much to be had from taking the important locations on each map.

[Celeborn]

The issue I have with destruction points is that it incentivizes going for broke to destroy enemy units even if it means losing your own. Yes my opponent gets extra VP but who knows where they will end up in the standings. If points are deducted for having units destroyed however one might handle their forces in a bit more realistic fashion. Point deduction could lead to negative scores so perhaps have everyone start with 1000 points or just allow negative scores.

I also have to differ with the assessment that WWII was all about terrain and so control should be the only way to generate VP. Terrain was most often the more important consideration, but there are numerous instances where operations were conducted with an eye toward destroying enemy forces (see Operation Uranus, Midway etc)

[MGraziani]

In the Winter '21 tournament Stage 1 Crescent Bay, I wasn't sure if I could disband some unused units.

If I had an all fighter air force, and suddenly needed a bomber or two, is it ethical to disband a fighter unit and purchase a bomber unit? Or should I have the fighter go down blazing in glory, then purchase a bomber?

[Erik2]

I would say that everything the game allows you to do is ok. It is up to the devs to change game functionality, ie no disbanding next to an enemy unit etc.
House rules does not work in tournaments in my opinion.
Other than meeting up at the battlefront and play your turn

[Shards]

Disbanding is fine.

The scenario rules will usually take note of this and award a unit "kill" to your opponent.

[MGraziani]

Thanks Erik2 and Shards. I have another question. Does destroying bunkers and pillboxes count as a kill?

[Shards]

It usually will, yes.

Depends on the scenario designer's decisions

[SagsGames77]

Disbanding is fine.

The scenario rules will usually take note of this and award a unit "kill" to your opponent.

But sadly not in the Peninsular Invasion scenario. Surely this should be a default in all tournaments? It is somewhat frustrating to knock a unit down to one or two strength and low organisation to see your opponent magically whisk them off the battlefield and so artificially deny you the VPs you have all but earned. In fact there is a positive advantage to this behaviour in this scenario because it is quite (too?) generous with RPs awarded per turn so I was confronted during the game by several fresh units appearing near the objectives and entering the battle at full strength and organisation.

I do think the game mechanics are probably fine (subject to VPs being awarded in the same way as for destroyed units) but have a lot of sympathy for players who do not disband as they think it is too gamey.

Maybe this is sour grapes on my part as I lost the scenario by one point but was denied at least 6 VPs that I know of due to units on the point of destruction being disbanded. However, I think my point is nevertheless valid.