QQ 6mm

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casang
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QQ 6mm

Post by casang » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:09 pm

Hi all just thinking about scale and was wondering about using 6mm minis on 15mm bases as most ppl in group will be doing it in 15mm but iv always had a thing 6mm nepoleonics so was wondering what will best represent a french INF unit and CAV unit just so i can start calculating up what i will need. Was thinking a colum of 3*4 on each 40X30 should look good.

any help much app....

Carl..

terrys
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Post by terrys » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:07 am

We have a seperate scale for 6mm figures of 30mmx20mm bases, with figures per base decided by the player.
There is nothing wrong with using 15mm or even 25mm basing for them. The only criteria being that you use movement and firing distances as appropriate for the base.

Incidently - you can refight Waterloo on a 6x4 table in 6mm. (Although you probably need a 6x6 table to get the correct depth required for the full Prussian attack.)

casang
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Post by casang » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:30 am

Thanks for the post just have to work out now how i am going to represent each battle group now on the bases, i presume the french will be on bases of 4 * 40*30 and russians be on 6 * 40*30.

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Post by BrettPT » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:54 am

Hi Carl

Both French or Russians can be in large (6 base) or small (4 base) units. Large units are considerably better, and having fewer units in the army can also help to ease command control problems. However they cost 50% more in army points. In my playtest games, I have drifted towards the greater flexibility of fielding mostly small units, especially for cavalry.

When converting from historical orders of battle, most - but by no means all - French units tend to come out as small (4 base).

I don't have a Russian army and are not so familiar with their orders of battle, so don't know whether they would tend to historically have a higher portion of large units. Two or three large Russian artillery units in an army however would certainly cause attacking opponents some problems on tabletop.

If you are thinking about organising figures before the rules and lists are published, I would recommend making about 2/3 or your line infantry units small and perhaps 1/3 large. There are good arguments for making cheap conscript units large - it depends a bit on whether they are expected to fight, or instead just act as support for the line. Elite troops are probably too expensive to field in large units so usually tend to be 4 base formations. Most in our playtest group also generally prefer small 4 base units for cavalry.

Cheers
Brett

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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by ravenflight » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:43 am

casang wrote:Hi all just thinking about scale and was wondering about using 6mm minis on 15mm bases as most ppl in group will be doing it in 15mm but iv always had a thing 6mm nepoleonics so was wondering what will best represent a french INF unit and CAV unit just so i can start calculating up what i will need. Was thinking a colum of 3*4 on each 40X30 should look good.

any help much app....

Carl..
Hi Carl,

Consider 10mm. I use this with ancients - works great. They fit better with the 'playing vs 15mm' model - so if you end up 6mm vs 15mm it seems 'odd' but 10mm vs 15mm is better. They also are very recognisable, and you still have 'room to move' with regards to making little dioramas.

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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by WarrenMcIntosh » Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:09 pm

I've based my 6mm on 40mm wide bases, but only 15mm depth. The depth really doesn't matter that much under the rules, and maintaining the same frontage and distance scale as for 15mm means I stay used to that frontage/scale for when I play 15mm games. I have to say I cram as many figures as i can on them, and they look just awesome!

mellis1644
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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by mellis1644 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:25 pm

Well I'm thinking that for 6mm, especially as the rules are regimental level, doing 6mm figures on the 28mm bases would be impressive on the table. So, I'd maybe using the typical 60mm x 30mm for a base would work - after all too much depth would make them look odd, and depth is not key according to the rules. :)

You could do/use 30 x 30 as a starter and move to larger units as well. as the forces are created.

It would require a few more figures but that would give the true effect of an army at war if nothing else. 6mm is all about mass effect and this would be impressive.

Either way this would allow use of a few 60 x 60 bases, which would also allow the figures to be in true line and battalion mode - to show in life what the pictures do on page 83 of the rule book. Maybe when I finish my SYW project... :twisted:

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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by nickdives » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:19 pm

6mm on 28mm bases would be superb!

CutEmUp
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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by CutEmUp » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:29 am

6mm is for people who suck at painting....just get the 15's and put a little effort in

mellis1644
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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by mellis1644 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:48 pm

[quote="CutEmUp"]6mm is for people who suck at painting....just get the 15's and put a little effort in[/quote]

Not to start a flame war but I disagree completely with your statement. :twisted:

I've painted a lot of all scales and have a huge 15mm Prussian 1812 army which I did last year. However, each scale gives a very different look and feel to games IMO, as well as challenge in painting/modeling. The painting techniques are different for the scales as well and require some refinement between then. The basics are the same but the size and detail plus number of figs make a huge difference on the table as well as under the paint brush. I say this from experience. I'm not the best painter in the world but not the worse either.

Cost, and speed of completion is a factor as well for some - with smaller scales being cheaper than larges ones, and quicker to get on the table generally. I know people who have taken multiple years to get a single 15mm army painted and some which have given up this period for that reason, what's the fun in that for them.

However, it's personal taste as to what you want in an army IMO. For example personally, I see 28mm as more of a skirmish scale - unless done with mass with 100's of troops and a huge table it looks too much like a skirmish/GW fantasy game. There is nothing wrong with that but it's just not pleasing to me for what I want in games for this period these days. It's also a huge investment of time and money to have. I want the mass of troops on the table which is what large battles are about. At 28mm+ scale you can make each fig a true uniform representation with all the details seen. That's great and what some people are after. At 6mm, for me, it's all about troops 'enmass' - lots of them, with scenic effects and a closer to true ground scale representation. 15's are somewhere in the middle of the two extremes and have benefits and issues from both.

Now all the scales can be done badly - bad paint jobs, poor basing, too few figs on a base etc and we each have our own view of that as well. So overall, I think you need to get a little perspective and understanding that your view may be different than others around scales and their hobby.

CutEmUp
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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by CutEmUp » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:06 pm

You disagree and then go on to agree with me

If people don't want to paint then they should hire a commission, but don't throw a bunch of poorly painted crap on the table......or a completely different scale so that the game looks silly.
It's not a flame argument. It's a seriously justifiable argument.....why would I play tabletop Wargames if the aesthetics suck? Isn't it the whole point? I paint with the best of them and spent years acquiring those skills. That's the point of the hobby, especially these days when you can find more opponents and a much easier mess to clean up on computer games.

mellis1644
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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by mellis1644 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:24 pm

The big difference I think we have is that I believe 6mm is not just for people who suck at painting, and dismiss it out of hand. Smaller scale does not automatically equate to poor quality results. :)

Check out some of the 6mm painting from good painters - they can do impressive displays and they really are scenic bases not small numbers of lonely figures on a stand. Even for good table top quality on 6mm figs you can do turnbacks, belts, etc. just the same as with 15's and get great results. The scale allows figures painted to this level to reflect more of an actual unit vs. a few random figs on a stand - which is the worse case and you often see. This is where 6mm shines and thus needs bigger bases - not smaller ones. With 6mm and 60mm bases sizes you can start to really reflect what the bases represent - not a random group of figs which is typical for 15 & 28+ scale. This is not for everyone but then again neither is this period of gaming.

P.S. The other use of 6mm is economy/space and that's a completely different argument.

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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by hazelbark » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:43 pm

mellis1644 wrote:P.S. The other use of 6mm is economy/space and that's a completely different argument.
Using thesee rules if you want too fight say Austerlitz. It would BE FAR EASIER in 6mm. Just from a management point of view.

Also as 25mm Nappie guy i would say you 15mm are tiny and have insufficient detail. After all if you can buttons of the facings then it doesn't count.
:wink:

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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by quackstheking » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:20 pm

or the Cuffs of the Austrians!!!

Don

CutEmUp
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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by CutEmUp » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:28 pm

I do 25 too, but my 15s look better than half the 25s I see

nickdives
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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by nickdives » Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:58 am

I have some huge armies to fight any battle (Need Swedes (again) to fight Leipzig!)) in 15mm all based for Napoleons Battles. I am currently painting 28mm for FOG (N) (1809 Campaign) because the figures on the market must be bought. I can see how 6mm would give a good massed effect, I have 6mm for my FPW games to allow the grand manoeuvre of massive armies:

http://s820.photobucket.com/albums/zz12 ... 6mm%20FPW/

Image

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Re:

Post by Sarmaticus » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:20 pm

terrys wrote: Incidently - you can refight Waterloo on a 6x4 table in 6mm. (Although you probably need a 6x6 table to get the correct depth required for the full Prussian attack.)
Another way to do big battles would be to use 15mm measurements and basing and call each 25mm/1" MU 100yards. That would allow infantry units to be brigades rather than regiments, reducing the number of tactical units that would need to be controlled. Brigade Commanders would be renamed Divisional Commanders and Divisions be replaced by Corps. Ranges are still within the broad range of probability and Volley and Bayonet scenarios can be used off the peg.
Getting in enough turns to finish is often the obstacle in monster games and with a 20 minute turn, they would need to be rattled through pretty quickly - though I suppose each turn could brepresent thirty minutes with the ground scale altered.

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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by MikeHorah » Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:25 am

CutEmUp wrote: If people don't want to paint then they should hire a commission, but don't throw a bunch of poorly painted crap on the table......or a completely different scale so that the game looks silly.
It's not a flame argument. It's a seriously justifiable argument.....why would I play tabletop Wargames if the aesthetics suck? Isn't it the whole point? I paint with the best of them and spent years acquiring those skills. That's the point of the hobby, especially these days when you can find more opponents and a much easier mess to clean up on computer games.
How nice to see the point made about aesthetics and wargaming with miniatures . I have long held that there is a distinct wargaming aesthetic which we have in common with model railway enthusiasts for example. I once saw someone with WRG 5th ed based unpainted Airfix Gauls masquerading as Dacians - people were throwing up for ten metres in all directions.....I went off ancients with DBA and DBM as I felt it looked silly (especially Pikes)and one might as well use counters and play a boardgame (I have almost as many 15mm ancient figures as 25mm Napoleonics).

One of our key aims from the start with FOG(N) was to achieve the right period " look and feel" which as someone with 19,000 25/28mm Napoleonics ( yeah I should get out more) was not unimportant - for me at least. But having used Grand Manner (ref point about getting out more...) for 15 years I have collaborated on and co-authored a game design which renders half my cavalry and guns redundant which I suppose proves once again that you should not wish too hard for what you want as you may get it!

The increasing range of high quality 28mm plastics available now is such a boon and may help folk do more 25/28mm demo games at shows, as they weigh so much less to transport! But that said 15mm, 10mm and 5mm can enable some of the really big historical battles like Leipzig and Wagram in a way that's very hard for 25/28mm to do. But one still wants it to look the part, even the round cuffs.....

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Re: QQ 6mm

Post by hazelbark » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:01 pm

MikeHorah wrote:How nice to see the point made about aesthetics and wargaming with miniatures . I have long held that there is a distinct wargaming aesthetic which we have in common with model railway enthusiasts for example. I once saw someone with WRG 5th ed based unpainted Airfix Gauls masquerading as Dacians - people were throwing up for ten metres in all directions.....I went off ancients with DBA and DBM as I felt it looked silly (especially Pikes)and one might as well use counters and play a boardgame (I have almost as many 15mm ancient figures as 25mm Napoleonics).

One of our key aims from the start with FOG(N) was to achieve the right period " look and feel" which as someone with 19,000 25/28mm Napoleonics ( yeah I should get out more) was not unimportant - for me at least. But having used Grand Manner (ref point about getting out more...) for 15 years I have collaborated on and co-authored a game design which renders half my cavalry and guns redundant which I suppose proves once again that you should not wish too hard for what you want as you may get it!
Well I plan to use my 25mm as much as possble. In the grand manner and to a degree the idea of one unit 32 figures at 25mm is daunting. Since my 25mm are mostly based 4 to a 1.5" square I think that may translate well into a 25mm scale using 15mm bases and measurements. If I had to do it again, I probably would do 6mm or 15mm to get the "in the grand manner" feel. But the other advantage of 4 bases with my current collection is my regiments will have facings, names and appropriate standards. Which is a major part of the ascetic not the blade-o, which I did enjoy in a different way.
I have a few 15mm but that is just to game with the heathens.

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